Coronavirus

[Swerd]

I've heard of some people having taken the vaccine becoming sick with flu. Also, on TV tonight, someone in the medical circles was mentioning that the flu vaccine was not as effective for older people. I beg to disagree but that adds to my arguments against it. I have been taking other vitamin and mineral supplements for over 35 years and I haven't had the flu for at least 25 years.

Be very cautious when citing anything from Fox News, such as that brief note from former CDC director Tom Frieden. Their track record on accuracy, much less their admitted biased opinions, suggests to me they should be renamed Faux News.

Thanks to whomever (was it GO-NAD!?) cited the CDC reference page concerning Misconceptions about Seasonal Flu and Flu Vaccines. I trust that info.

In particular, people who claim, or repeat claims they've heard, that flu vaccines give you the flu are absolutely wrong. They can get a reaction that gives them some flu-like symptoms (aches, pain and malaise) that lasts about a day. This is nothing like the real flu, for many reasons. The primary reason is that the real flu is contagious. Those flu-like symptoms resulting from vaccine injections cannot be passed on to others.

It's been known for some time that as people age, the standard flu vaccines don't induce sufficient immunity. Using injections with higher doses of flu antigen in older people has been shown to be effective in clinical trials.

Whenever I hear people claim they have never had the flu, or haven't had it for years, I have to wonder if they know what they did and didn't have. I have personally known someone who came to work while sick with micoplasma pneumonia. He swore he wasn't sick, but he infected 3 others at work. He also claimed he never had the flu. If he never noticed he had walking pneumonia, then he probably never noticed he had the flu.

I've heard this "I never get the flu" behavior described as Nile Syndrome, also known as Denial Syndrome. Some people may even gain some kind of status by claiming never to have been sick with common infectious diseases. We've all seen the opposite too, people who claim to have been infected by everything. In fact, some people are downright competitive at this. If I complain about a headache, they complain about their brain tumor. As a result, I tend to ignore individual claims about such things.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Thanks to whomever (was it GO-NAD!?) cited the CDC reference page concerning Misconceptions about Seasonal Flu and Flu Vac

Guilty as charged.

 

[Verdinut]

Be very cautious when citing anything from Fox News, such as that brief note from former CDC director Tom Frieden. Their track record on accuracy, much less their admitted biased opinions, suggests to me they should be renamed Faux News.

Thanks to whomever (was it GO-NAD!?) cited the CDC reference page concerning Misconceptions about Seasonal Flu and Flu Vaccines. I trust that info.

In particular, people who claim, or repeat claims they've heard, that flu vaccines give you the flu are absolutely wrong. They can get a reaction that gives them some flu-like symptoms (aches, pain and malaise) that lasts about a day. This is nothing like the real flu, for many reasons. The primary reason is that the real flu is contagious. Those flu-like symptoms resulting from vaccine injections cannot be passed on to others.

It's been known for some time that as people age, the standard flu vaccines don't induce sufficient immunity. Using injections with higher doses of flu antigen in older people has been shown to be effective in clinical trials.

Whenever I hear people claim they have never had the flu, or haven't had it for years, I have to wonder if they know what they did and didn't have. I have personally known someone who came to work while sick with micoplasma pneumonia. He swore he wasn't sick, but he infected 3 others at work. He also claimed he never had the flu. If he never noticed he had walking pneumonia, then he probably never noticed he had the flu.

Yes, I know about that Fox News station. I figured that Tom Frieden had agreed to the publishing, what I presume, was of one of his own statements.

 

[GO-NAD!]

We're getting ready to attack Canada like we did in 1812? If so, I hope for a better US outcome.

More seriously, what's your source?

In American English, "Canada" is spelled P-O-L-A-N-D.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-border-coronavirus-1.5510853

 

[GO-NAD!]

Odd, I can't see any references to such movement on US sites, even using Google. Oh well, I suggest you hunker down. Since Trump's offer to buy Greenland was snubbed, perhaps he's looking to conquer Nova Scotia?

If the US takes Nova Scotia, will it be warmer here?

 

[herbu]

It's the way Congress has worked for decades.

Normally, yes. It is politics, the way of a 2-party system, and I think probably a good thing because the truth and right usually lie somewhere in the middle. But is this a normal situation? It doesn't seem like that's the way everybody is talking.

 

[herbu]

I support assistance to businesses. The democrats in congress to do (they want rules, conditions, and oversight).

So maybe you can help me understand. As I understand it, businesses like Joe's Diner will get a loan that is "forgivable". I think that means the loan doesn't have to be paid back. But a large business can get a loan with a 5 year term, and it can not be forgiven. Can you explain why the difference?

As for govt aid, it sounds like you propose it for everything. Any bad circumstance or luck should be mitigated by the government. Is that what you mean?

 

[JerryLove]

So maybe you can help me understand. As I understand it, businesses like Joe's Diner will get a loan that is "forgivable". I think that means the loan doesn't have to be paid back. But a large business can get a loan with a 5 year term, and it can not be forgiven. Can you explain why the difference?

That's not an accurate / complete desciription.

For larger companies with up to 10,000 workers, the government is providing tax credits covering 50 percent of employee wages.

Smaller companies get a loan. If the smaller company does not layoffs, then the loan is forgiveable. If they lay off anyone, then it's just a loan (https://thehill.com/policy/finance/489552-how-the-business-loan-program-would-work-in-the-2t-coronavirus-package)

I suspect this boils down to the differences in overhead-vs-capital in the normal business of a given size. GM Isn't likely to let their property get foreclosed on; so they need incentive to keep workers. Bob's deli, OTOH, needs cash to pay the bills.

As for govt aid, it sounds like you propose it for everything. Any bad circumstance or luck should be mitigated by the government. Is that what you mean?

As much as you mean that the government should never mitigate anything for anyone.

But let me give you some ideas of specific mitigation I support.
Heathcare should be available without premiums. We shouldn't be stopping people from starting a business because they will lose their company healthcare. We shouldn't be tacking the added burden of healtcare on unemployment or disability (nor the compexity of switching healthcare).

Firefighting should be available for free. If your house catches on fire, people should come to help put it out without a requirement that you enroll in some sort of fire-insurance (obviously we actually do this one already, but it's a good example).

Buying insurance should have "except this disaster" exceptions (except where said disaster is part of the cost of doing business.). If they do, that should be covered under government-sponsored insurance.

Unemployment insurance that's functional.

Social welfare that's functional.

I'd like to solve the food stamp question by giving food stamps to everyone.
If you have a bunch of money, then you've paid for your own food stamps so you are not a mooch.
If you don't. Then you need it.
If you are dodging taxes, than you are dodging taxes and will hopefully be arrested (but more likely be elected); but that's a separate issue.

 

[JerryLove]

Normally, yes. It is politics, the way of a 2-party system, and I think probably a good thing because the truth and right usually lie somewhere in the middle. But is this a normal situation? It doesn't seem like that's the way everybody is talking.

You don't get a middle when the parties (or even one party) is "party first".

This is what we discovered starting with Gingrich and his party-first approach to the GOP.

When that happens either the party in power has enough power to exert total control without compromise (first 2 years of Trump), or the government deadlocks (second 4 years of Obama) going so far as to not due their duty to vote on SCotUS nominees.

 

[Verdinut]

Whenever I hear people claim they have never had the flu, or haven't had it for years, I have to wonder if they know what they did and didn't have. I have personally known someone who came to work while sick with micoplasma pneumonia. He swore he wasn't sick, but he infected 3 others at work. He also claimed he never had the flu. If he never noticed he had walking pneumonia, then he probably never noticed he had the flu.

You may not believe that I haven't had the flu for 25 years or more. If I had the flu , I would have had symptoms such as fever, cough, nasal congestion, muscle pains and so on. Over those 25 years or so, I haven't experienced any severe symptoms apart from a rarely occurring benign cold. But in 1988, I had cold symptoms and actually suffered from pneumonia without any pain. While I was at work. the physician's secretary called asking me to go home. Just about one week after that phone call and antibiotic medication, a repeat chest X-Ray was negative.
In 2018, I had two episodes of pericarditis. The first bout was more painful than the second one, I couldn't even stand lying down on my back. At the hospital, doctors were suspecting either pneumonia or pericarditis. By intuition I was sure it wasn't pneumonia. Two lung X-Rays were negative. I was prescribed antibiotics, and the cardiologist prescribed Colchicine, an anti-gout agent, to prevent a recurrence which did happen about 5 months later. This time, I was prescribed Colchicine for 6 months and haven't had any since.
By the way, at the Montreal Heart Institute where I was treated for the last pericarditis episode, they are working on a study where they target 6,000 people who will have tested positive for Covid-19. Colchicine is a potent anti-inflammatory agent and this is the drug which they want to try on them.

 

[3db]

Odd, I can't see any references to such movement on US sites, even using Google. Oh well, I suggest you hunker down. Since Trump's offer to buy Greenland was snubbed, perhaps he's looking to conquer Nova Scotia?

GONAD will fend off Trump..wont' ya buddy???

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-border-coronavirus-1.5510853

 

[GO-NAD!]

GONAD will fend off Trump..wont' ya buddy???

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-border-coronavirus-1.5510853

If it's just him? Yeah...I think I can take him.

 

[Swerd]

You may not believe that I haven't had the flu for 25 years or more. If I had the flu , I would have had symptoms such as fever, cough, nasal congestion, muscle pains and so on. Over those 25 years or so, I haven't experienced any severe symptoms apart from a rarely occurring benign cold. But in 1988, I had cold symptoms and actually suffered from pneumonia without any pain. While I was at work. the physician's secretary called asking me to go home. Just about one week after that phone call and antibiotic medication, a repeat chest X-Ray was negative.

I probably cannot convince you that you might be wrong, nor can you convince me I am wrong. We'll agree to disagree. But I still felt the need to comment about avoiding the flu vaccine as others do read these posts.

In 2018, I had two episodes of pericarditis. The first bout was more painful than the second one, I couldn't even stand lying down on my back. At the hospital, doctors were suspecting either pneumonia or pericarditis. By intuition I was sure it wasn't pneumonia. Two lung X-Rays were negative. I was prescribed antibiotics, and the cardiologist prescribed Colchicine, an anti-gout agent, to prevent a recurrence which did happen about 5 months later. This time, I was prescribed Colchicine for 6 months and haven't had any since.
By the way, at the Montreal Heart Institute where I was treated for the last pericarditis episode, they are working on a study where they target 6,000 people who will have tested positive for Covid-19. Colchicine is a potent anti-inflammatory agent and this is the drug which they want to try on them.

I know very little about Colchicine. It was known to be a highly toxic, even dangerous, substance.

In the laboratory it was occasionally used to produce cells that could live for a while without any nucleus. I used it only once. The experiment didn't work, so I never used it again.

Are you considering volunteering for that clinical trial? If the researchers at the Montreal Heart Institute are using it to test patients, they must certainly have approval from institutional review boards on the details of that treatment and the ethical questions of the clinical trial. I suspect they had a lot to say.

 

[Alex2507]

I used it only once.

Did you snort it or smoke it?

 

[Mr._Clark]

In American English, "Canada" is spelled P-O-L-A-N-D.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-border-coronavirus-1.5510853

My first suggestion: If you see Americans near the border who appear to be getting ready to build a fort, give them an accurate map so they know where to build it:

New York's Fort Blunder, a monument to a 19th century map mistake, is for sale, but so far, no takers

My second suggestion: after this is over, we (Americans and Canadians) can get together and drink beer and lie about our heroics during the coronovirus war of 2020 (no disrespect intended to the healthcare providers and others who really are making heroic efforts).

 

[Verdinut]

I know very little about Colchicine. It was known to be a highly toxic, even dangerous, substance.

Are you considering volunteering for that clinical trial? If the researchers at the Montreal Heart Institute are using it to test patients, they must certainly have approval from institutional review boards on the details of that treatment and the ethical questions of the clinical trial. I suspect they had a lot to say.

First, to be able to volunteer, I would have to be infected with the virus, wouldn't I?

 

[herbu]

If you are dodging taxes, than you are dodging taxes and will hopefully be arrested (but more likely be elected); but that's a separate issue.

Well by golly, we do agree on something! It sounds like we also agree that the government, (just another way of saying you and me), should help people less fortunate. However, we can't help everybody with every thing. The discussion then becomes where do we draw the line. Agree?

 

[JerryLove]

Well by golly, we do agree on something! It sounds like we also agree that the government, (just another way of saying you and me), should help people less fortunate. However, we can't help everybody with every thing. The discussion then becomes where do we draw the line. Agree?

Yep. I agree.

But if you want to get into a long debate on government; let's start a new thread.

 

[Gmoney]

Uncle Trump sending out $1200 checks hooray!!
On the lighter side Billions going to the Rich and famous in free loans.

 

[Gmoney]

Well by golly, we do agree on something! It sounds like we also agree that the government, (just another way of saying you and me), should help people less fortunate. However, we can't help everybody with every thing. The discussion then becomes where do we draw the line. Agree?

Umm Uncle Trump will give you some money,
ummm, some of the other taxpayers money.