Another Disgrace from Gestapo USA.

[Trell]

Let's just say, the VOTERS elected Trump or for a Dictatorship.

I don't think that most Trump voters had the current outcome in mind, that is, they believed "those others" would be targetted. But oh boy, aren’t the MAGA bitches inhabitants of West Virginia whining concerned when they found out that elections actually have consequences.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Let's just say, the VOTERS elected Trump or for a Dictatorship.

Yes, thanks.

 

[Mr._Clark]

I don't think that most Trump voters had the current outcome in mind, that is, they believed "those others" would be targetted. But oh boy, aren’t the MAGA bitches inhabitants of West Virginia whining concerned when they found out that elections actually have consequences.

Based on the polls I've seen, most Trump voters seem to be okay with Trump.

>>>. . . . some polls show very few Trump voters actually feel regret over their vote last time. A particularly viral recent cable news clip is illustrative: CNN's Harry Enten recently used a poll conducted by the University of Massachusetts-Amherst in April to show that "very few” Trump voters “regret what they did back in 2024." In that poll, when asked directly if they regretted their vote, just 4% of self-described Trump voters say they would have voted for someone else or not at all, with 93% saying they feel confident about their vote.<<<

Do any Trump voters regret their choice?

It's a hard question to answer. Our poll suggests many do.

www.gelliottmorris.com

I can't help but wonder if there's some cognitive dissonance at play in the answers to the poll questions. It seems to me that if a person was "all in" on Trump emotionally, it would be difficult to admit, even to a person conducting a poll, that they made a dumb choice.

My (admittedly amateur) impression of Trump's appeal is that it's based largely on negativity, not a positive vision. I would guess that almost everyone disliked at least a couple things about the government prior to the election. Trump attacked almost everything, and it appears to me that a reasonably high percentage of voters agreed on at least a couple items. Provided the attacks are not too specific, the "misses" won't turn off too many voters that agreed on a couple issues ("hits"). My impression is that a lot of voters saw what they wanted in Trump based on a few "hits" and they didn't take him seriously when said he would enact crushing tariffs, etc. as solutions.

Having said that, I still find it odd that 93% of Trump voters say they feel confident about their vote.

 

[lovinthehd]

Trump only got a plurality of the votes cast for US President, and not a majority.

Yeah I wasn't accurately using the term, meant more a majority of the democrat/republican votes as other candidates just aren't in the running really. The 1.9% cast for other candidates mean little unfortunately.

 

[trochetier]

This seems to confirm my suspicions:

>>>Stephen Miller, the main architect of Mr. Trump’s domestic agenda, had a message for other advisers inside the presidential transition offices in West Palm Beach, Fla.: Be bold. Do not worry about potential litigation, especially when drafting Mr. Trump’s immigration actions. . . .

Mr. Miller had long been interested in the Alien Enemies Act, a law passed in 1798 that allows the U.S. government to swiftly deport citizens of an invading nation. . . .He saw it as a powerful weapon to apply to immigration enforcement.

The law “allows you to instantaneously remove any noncitizen foreigner from an invading country, aged 14 or older,” Mr. Miller told the right-wing podcaster Charlie Kirk in a September 2023 interview, adding: “That allows you to suspend the due process that normally applies to a removal proceeding.”<<< (emphasis added)

Behind Trump’s Deal to Deport Venezuelans to El Salvador’s Most Feared Prison

New details deepen questions about the deportations, showing that El Salvador’s president pressed for assurances that the migrants were really members of the Tren de Aragua gang.

www.nytimes.com

Mr Miller: Please read the United States Constitution, including the 5th amendment.

It's mind-boggling that Trump is apparently relying on legal advice from someone with no knowledge of the law.

In terms of the MS-13 gang members, this provides some insight:

>>>Mr. Bukele had his own request: a list of MS-13 leaders that he wanted released from U.S. custody and sent to El Salvador, where he said they could be interrogated by his security officers. . . .

“What Bukele is desperate for is to get these guys back in El Salvador before they talk in U.S. court,” said Douglas Farah, an El Salvador expert who between 2018 and 2022 collaborated with the Justice Department “Vulcan” task force, which targeted MS-13, as a U.S. military contractor.<<< (emphasis added)

I strongly suspect the administration invoked the state secrets doctrine in an effort to keep embarrassing facts hidden, not for legitimate reasons related to national security. It smells like desperation born from the realization that "Oh sh*t, we F'd up, now what?!?"

Perhaps Bukele has other reasons for the MS13 leaders - https://www.democracynow.org/2025/5/14/nayib_bukele_journalism_crackdown_el_faro

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yeah I wasn't accurately using the term, meant more a majority of the democrat/republican votes as other candidates just aren't in the running really. The 1.9% cast for other candidates mean little unfortunately.

Well, if they all voted for democrats, Trump would be in jail now for his felony convictions.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, if they all voted for democrats, Trump would be in jail now for his felony convictions.

Yeah but they didn't. Our voting population is weak.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, if they all voted for democrats, Trump would be in jail now for his felony convictions.

But they voted for other than democrats....for our miniscule independent/green/etc entities.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, if they all voted for democrats, Trump would be in jail now for his felony convictions.

The presidential election doesn't mean that....he has the support of both houses as well as tweakery from the shitty SCOTUS

 

[Mr._Clark]

Interesting. Dropping charges against an alleged MS-13 leader certainly looks suspicious:

>>>As part of the deportation flights of alleged terrorists at the center of a legal and political storm, the US quietly dropped charges against a key alleged MS-13 leader and returned him to the pro-Trump leader of El Salvador.

César Humberto López-Larios, an alleged top leader of the MS-13 gang who US investigators believe has information that could implicate top Salvadoran government officials in possibly corrupt deals with the violent gang, was deported on one of the controversial flights, according to current and former US officials and court documents. . . .

But bringing MS-13 leaders to face charges in the US has been a top priority for the Justice Department, and the transfer is a major loss of potential intelligence for investigators who helped track down López-Larios for his arrest in Mexico last year, current and former officials say.<<< (emphasis added)

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/24/politics/ms-13-leader-deported-el-salvador-boasberg-order/index.html

It could explain why the administration has invoked the state secrets doctrine.

>>>The Justice Department said in a court filing Monday that it was exercising what's commonly called the "state secrets privilege" in the case because sharing the information would harm diplomatic relations and national security.<<<

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/26/nx-s1-5339507/what-is-state-secrets-privilege-trump-administration

Invoking the state secrets doctrine in this situation struck me as being odd. There really shouldn't be any need for it if the "deal" with El Salvador is above board.

It might also explain why the administration decided to invoke the Alien Enemies Act and get them out of the country quick without any court hearings.

This is highly speculative on my part, but I can't help but wonder if there was a dirty deal (done dirt cheap) to get the prisoners out of the U.S. so they couldn't testify in court, which might have been damaging in some way.

I'm curious what the h*ll is actually going on.

It looks like this issue is getting more news coverage.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5660932-democrats-rubio-ms-13-el-salvador-deportation/

From a prior interview:

>>>But Salvadoran president Nayib Bukele also wanted something else - the return of nine MS-13 gang leaders in U.S. custody. Secretary of State Marco Rubio agreed, even though some of these gang members were informants under the protection of the Justice Department. Now, this is according to a new investigation from The Washington Post.<<<

https://www.npr.org/2025/10/21/nx-s1-5580555/why-the-state-department-handed-u-s-informants-over-to-el-salvador

It will be interesting to see if more information comes out.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Boy, what a mess. Wonder why this is happening. Is there $$$$ involved? How much? I guess justice is very selective.

 

[Teetertotter?]

Nothing new with Trump, Staff, Cabinet, and Mega in Congress. They just don't care for the well being of Americans, as a whole. The GOP as a whole, are non sympathetic/non caring and hope they don't start WWIII. The KING and his band are in control..........sadly. Perhaps there is some hope, mid terms 2026, with replacing both house with Democrat majority. Perhaps there is some hope.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Boy, what a mess. Wonder why this is happening. Is there $$$$ involved? How much? I guess justice is very selective.

My best guess is that Trump wanted to make a big show of the deportations to the prison in El Salvador partly to excite his base, and partly to deter others from coming into the U.S.

To my mind, the big question is why Bukele was so anxious to get the (alleged) MS-13 gang members back even though they were cooperating with a U.S. federal investigation into MS-13. If Bukele really is trying to shut down MS-13, wouldn't he want the MS-13 gang members to continue cooperating with the U.S. investigation so the U.S. could crack down on MS-13 and provide Bukele with information that would help him crack down on MS-13?

Of course, the PR value of Trump's big show of force would take a serious hit if it turned out Bukele himself is in bed with MS-13, so this could have been a secondary motivation for Trump to halt the MS-13 investigation (assuming the allegations concerning Bukele are true and assuming Trump knew about them)(these seem like fairly reasonable assumptions, but I don't think it's been proven that Bukele has been cutting deals with MS-13).

From the NPR interview:

>>>KELLY: Why does Bukele - President Bukele of El Salvador - why does he want these specific nine guys?

HUDSON: The El Salvador government was known to make deals with MS-13 in order to help achieve the country's historic drop in violence. There's been concern that if more information gets out about the deals between the government and MS-13, that it would tarnish Bukele's tough-on-crime reputation.<<<(emphasis added)

I'm guessing that if more information did get out, it would do more than "tarnish" Bukele's tough-on-crime reputation.

We will probably never know how many MS-13 gang members in the U.S. are still walking around committing crimes because the investigation was halted. Conceivably, quite a few people could become victims as a result of Trump's PR stunt.

A lot of this is speculative on my part, of course. I'm not sure if we will ever really know what the h*ll is going on.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

HUDSON: The El Salvador government was known to make deals with MS-13 in order to help achieve the country's historic drop in violence. There's been concern that if more information gets out about the deals between the government and MS-13, that it would tarnish Bukele's tough-on-crime reputation.<<<(emphasis added)

I'm guessing that if more information did get out, it would do more than "tarnish" Bukele's tough-on-crime reputation.

We will probably never know how many MS-13 gang members in the U.S. are still walking around committing crimes because the investigation was halted. Conceivably, quite a few people could become victims as a result of Trump's PR stunt.

A lot of this is speculative on my part, of course. I'm not sure if we will ever really know what the h*ll is going on.

That would be my guess as well, being involved with them to get kickbacks ala Noriega?

 

[mono-bloc]

Just perhaps they should have conducted a poll on non-voters, and asked why they did not bother to vote.

 

[highfigh]

Just perhaps they should have conducted a poll on non-voters, and asked why they did not bother to vote.

I'm guessing there are a few reasons- apathy, the feeling that it won't matter who they vote for and "I'm not political", among them. There's also "Our country only works for the rich", whuch is total BS. If that were true, people who came from poor families wouldn't be able to escape poverty and we all know it happens on a wide scale.

 

[dlaloum]

I'm guessing there are a few reasons- apathy, the feeling that it won't matter who they vote for and "I'm not political", among them. There's also "Our country only works for the rich", whuch is total BS. If that were true, people who came from poor families wouldn't be able to escape poverty and we all know it happens on a wide scale.

I believe that the statistics nowadays are saying the "It happened on a wide scale" a generation and 2 generations ago - but proportionately, the rate of "people who came from poor families escaping poverty" has dropped dramatically since the Reagan era started the deployment of neo-liberalism.

Also when analysing those statistics, look also to changes in definitions of "poverty"... international data collection agencies are may provide more reliably long term data than domestic US government agencies where the definitions have changed dramatically, as they are manipulated for political gain... so it often requires deep dives into the actual raw data - rather than looking at reported outcomes based on changing definitions!

I like to point at the era when an average working man, could own a house, support his wife and 2 or three children, on a single income. (including putting them through college without incurring debt).
That used to be the definition of the minimum "living wage" expectation.

 

[Dude#1279435]

I believe that the statistics nowadays are saying the "It happened on a wide scale" a generation and 2 generations ago - but proportionately, the rate of "people who came from poor families escaping poverty" has dropped dramatically since the Reagan era started the deployment of neo-liberalism.

Also when analysing those statistics, look also to changes in definitions of "poverty"... international data collection agencies are may provide more reliably long term data than domestic US government agencies where the definitions have changed dramatically, as they are manipulated for political gain... so it often requires deep dives into the actual raw data - rather than looking at reported outcomes based on changing definitions!

I like to point at the era when an average working man, could own a house, support his wife and 2 or three children, on a single income. (including putting them through college without incurring debt).
That used to be the definition of the minimum "living wage" expectation.

Could you ever really support a house, 2-3 kids, and 2 cars on a single income? If they were getting OT I'm guessing. I think the 50s is the cutoff for that working family man and traditional values idealism so that in itself would need research to see if it were even true.

 

[highfigh]

I believe that the statistics nowadays are saying the "It happened on a wide scale" a generation and 2 generations ago - but proportionately, the rate of "people who came from poor families escaping poverty" has dropped dramatically since the Reagan era started the deployment of neo-liberalism.

Also when analysing those statistics, look also to changes in definitions of "poverty"... international data collection agencies are may provide more reliably long term data than domestic US government agencies where the definitions have changed dramatically, as they are manipulated for political gain... so it often requires deep dives into the actual raw data - rather than looking at reported outcomes based on changing definitions!

I like to point at the era when an average working man, could own a house, support his wife and 2 or three children, on a single income. (including putting them through college without incurring debt).
That used to be the definition of the minimum "living wage" expectation.

WRT the past paragraph- demanding higher wages with the backing of labor unions created a world where factory workers who, if you ever discussed ANYTHING with the ones who were working in the '60s and '70s, can't be called 'overly intelligent. Yes, many were, but mostly, the ones who were gung ho union mebmers were saying "They make millions on our backs" without a second's thought about who started the company, paid for the buildings, set up the company, pays for all kinds of things they never see and then, when the employees become so grateful for the higher than average wages go on strike, who feels the pain? The company feels it the most, followed by the workers who are paid a pittance by the union and maybe collecting unemployment until the strike ends. Who feels ABSOLUTELY no pain? The unions. The dues they collect funds future retirees and current expenses but at some point, which is NOW, the benefits end without the workers having any input while the unions carry on.

That leads to the effec from teh higher wages- higher prices for the goods they make. One of the gyujs my dad worked with at Harley-Davidson was one of the biggest PITA loudmouths I have ever met and the quote about "...on our backs" is something that little piss ant used to try to make his point but if someone saw his pickup, they would have seen a 'Buy Union' bumper sticker on it. He drove a Toyota, before Toyota built factories in the US.

High prices make people want more money from their job and it's a never-ending cycle. People bitch about foreign manufacturing, but they'll also stop at nothing to find the lowest prices.