Do you think it's worth going with a separate AV Processor?

[PENG]

So in your opinion and your experience what out there can we buy that brings you superlative audio performance? Are there any products out there that actually pull it off? I know your busy so when you get time I'd appreciate your insights

Not that I can think of. Based on available bench measurements, the CX-A5000 series, Marantz AV8802A/8805, Monoprice

So if the CX-A5100 measures the same as the AV8805 using Amir's standards, then do you think Amir would call the CX-A5100 "SOTA"?

That's my point. If Amir says the measurements for the CX-A5100 is NOT SOTA, will it still considered SOTA because Gene's measurements show that it is SOTA?

His reference for the "SOTA" thing seems to be desktop DACs, he never said that but I could tell while he would test/measure anything, even speakers, DACs have been his bread and butter so it is hard for him not to think about them all the time. I did post my protests to the posters there (but not Amir) who seem to expect AVP/Cs to measure as good, that is not realistic and the reasons should be obvious to most audiohlics. Having said that, now that he has measured a few Yamaha, one Denon and a couple of Pioneer, it is clear that if the Yamaha and Marantz processors are considered SOTA, the AVRs aren't too far from that, albeit would likely have to compare in lower output voltage, like 1.5 V unbalanced instead of 2 V.

 

[PENG]

So in your opinion and your experience what out there can we buy that brings you superlative audio performance? Are there any products out there that actually pull it off? I know your busy so when you get time I'd appreciate your insights

Not for Amir, but for me any Marantz SR6000/7000, Denon X3600H and up should be considered SOTA, as at that level, any audio specs/performance difference among them should be sort off considered not audible or negligibly audible without signal processing involved.

 

[PENG]

you still get snow in Ontario ;-)? I liked up there in Toronto when I was there...very cold and not much snow

Good thing my driveways are small, too less than an hour to clear about 4 inches, but apparently at least 2" or more are still coming. That's really nothing for me as I live up north for a few years. It has been a very mild and dry winter too in the GTA.

 

[PENG]

Also Emotiva published there test results on there forum and gave there reasons why Amirs results didn't measure as well as there interesting stuff

I spent an hour going through multiple pages of bla bla bla and did not see any published test results on that owners forum. All I could tell is that Keith L, whatever his title was at Emo, said the result were coming, and that they had to abridge 250 pages of........., that's increidble!

And one owner on the site keeps running the same tests and keeps getting the same results Amir did not Emotivas both tests reference levels on his where run both ways Amirs and then Emotivas and they still come out like Amirs

May be I missed some pages, can you post a link. At the moment I really have nothing to go with, but was amazed by those fan boys, especially the one who keep repeating/emphasizing he didn't/wouldn't listen to numbers and graphs, and only trust his ears.

 

[lovinthehd]

So in your opinion and your experience what out there can we buy that brings you superlative audio performance? Are there any products out there that actually pull it off? I know your busy so when you get time I'd appreciate your insights

Define superlative audio performance.....this on the lines of Amir's expectations of THD+N or jitter or ? Or just good gear that's been bettered year after year after year?

 

[Gmoney]

I'm not the engineer either.

While I never gave any thought to my LCR being powered by an Emo, but ultimately bought 2 Emo amps (A500 and A800 for surround and whole house duty) and to date no complaints.

For the purpose and the amount I paid, I'm content, but if I had it to do over again, I probably would've just bought the A800 for whole house. I really wish I had bought 5 monos for the 5 ch, and the Outlaw 5000 for the atmos but the outlaw 5 ch wasn't in stock at the time.

Back in 2011 I picked up two UPA-1 EMO monoblock amps, at 699 for both, 200 @ 8 Ohms well built amps. Very Solid amps wish I hadn’t sold them off. EMOTIVA stopped making these amps about a year after I got my pair. What they have out now I wouldn’t buy.

 

[Danzilla31]

I spent an hour going through multiple pages of bla bla bla and did not see any published test results on that owners forum. All I could tell is that Keith L, whatever his title was at Emo, said the result were coming, and that they had to abridge 250 pages of........., that's increidble!



May be I missed some pages, can you post a link. At the moment I really have nothing to go with, but was amazed by those fan boys, especially the one who keep repeating/emphasizing he didn't/wouldn't listen to numbers and graphs, and only trust his ears.

I'm terrible at linking stuff it got posted today on Amirs site for the Emotiva RMC-1 on today's posts on that thread Amir linked it and it got published on Emotivas owner thread for the RMC-1 for today's date on that thread it's on the last page or 2 of each thread

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

His reference for the "SOTA" thing seems to be desktop DACs, he never said that but I could tell while he would test/measure anything, even speakers, DACs have been his bread and butter so it is hard for him not to think about them all the time.

Yeah, some people reading his reviews might come away thinking that they should buy separate DACs since these $5K AVPs can compete with a cheap DAC.

With that being said, I am glad he is doing all these reviews. Definitely gives a lot of people something to look at and discuss/debate.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm terrible at linking stuff it got posted today on Amirs site for the Emotiva RMC-1 on today's posts on that thread Amir linked it and it got published on Emotivas owner thread for the RMC-1 for today's date on that thread it's on the last page or 2 of each thread

This is what Lonnie said: "If the processor was as he says, would it not be reflected in the sound quality?"

Official RMC-1 OWNERS Thread | The Emotiva Lounge

Since the other thread has a lot of posts from non-owners, I think we need a thread for OWNERS only. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING HERE UNLESS YOU OWN AN RMC-1. Thank you. U

emotivalounge.proboards.com

Answer: Heck no. These measurements may tell us some things (engineering, design, implementation, quality, etc.), but they are NOT going to tell us if these components will sound BAD. They will all sound GREAT.

Even cheap AVRs can sound great.

 

[PENG]

I would be absolutely interested to know what @gene thinks.

It seems Amir thinks the Marantz AV8805 and many other components have "failed" his test.

I don't know of any other 3rd party who has measured the AV8805. But S&V measured the AV8802, and it seems to have SOTA measurements.

@PENG can elaborate on the AV8802 measurements, but I think S&V measured SNR at 130.38dB, Crosstalk 92.21 dB, THD+N 0.008%, FR 20Hz-20kHz @ -0.04dB/-0.01dB. Are these NOT SOTA numbers?

But I also assumed the AV8805 would measure as well as the AV8802. I could be wrong.

Working on a comparison table, its coming... probably in a few hours. Thanks to you guy's "Texas Low" , have to push snow again, after some shopping.

 

[thrillcat]

Little Dan just made the official announcement that Amirm was, in fact, correct.

Seems they spent some time running tests with Amirm’s approach and found a DSP register had an incorrect value, causing the abnormalities. A firmware fix is being issued to correct the problem.

Hundreds of emovangelistas have been seen NOT lining up to admit they were incorrect, NOT thanking Amirm for identifying a bug in the code.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

Little Dan just made the official announcement that Amirm was, in fact, correct.

Seems they spent some time running tests with Amirm’s approach and found a DSP register had an incorrect value, causing the abnormalities. A firmware fix is being issued to correct the problem.

Hundreds of emovangelistas have been seen NOT lining up to admit they were incorrect, NOT thanking Amirm for identifying a bug in the code.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow. The power of kool-aid cannot be underestimated. I'd go as far as to say Amirm could be owed an apology by some... 1 point for objectivism.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think it's time to make another contribution to ASR. Amir is providing leadership value with his reviews.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For years, manufacturers have been measuring the same way that HTM, Stereophile, S&V, AH measure because they want SOTA numbers for these publications.

Yamaha need to get the next CX-A5300 to measure as well or better than the CX-A5100 to get SOTA measurement from Audioholics.

But if manufacturers want SOTA numbers from Amir, they need to measure the same way that Amir measures.

Will Emotiva attempt to "correct" their $5K RMC-1 using the same standards that Amir uses so that they can get SOTA measurements from Amir? Would it boost their sales if they can come out on top on Amir's website?

 

[Irvrobinson]

For years, manufacturers have been measuring the same way that HTM, Stereophile, S&V, AH measure because they want SOTA numbers for these publications.

Yamaha need to get the next CX-A5300 to measure as well or better than the CX-A5100 to get SOTA measurement from Audioholics.

But if manufacturers want SOTA numbers from Amir, they need to measure the same way that Amir measures.

Will Emotiva attempt to "correct" their $5K RMC-1 using the same standards that Amir uses so that they can get SOTA measurements from Amir? Would it boost their sales if they can come out on top on Amir's website?

Stereophile does not measure A/V equipment.

I think it is unlikely that measurements from any web site affect the sales of AVRs or pre-pros appreciably. I think the average buyer, even those who buy relatively expensive equipment, wouldn't know the difference between a decibel and the Liberty Bell.

As I've said before, I think a diversity of measurements is a good thing. The sum of the diverse measurements tell you more than everyone doing the same thing.

 

[Danzilla31]

For years, manufacturers have been measuring the same way that HTM, Stereophile, S&V, AH measure because they want SOTA numbers for these publications.

Yamaha need to get the next CX-A5300 to measure as well or better than the CX-A5100 to get SOTA measurement from Audioholics.

But if manufacturers want SOTA numbers from Amir, they need to measure the same way that Amir measures.

Will Emotiva attempt to "correct" their $5K RMC-1 using the same standards that Amir uses so that they can get SOTA measurements from Amir? Would it boost their sales if they can come out on top on Amir's website?

Maybe they should since he obviously found an error serious enough for them to publicly announce he was correct and send out an IMMEDIATE fix to address it almost unheard of for Emo

You can tell by the tone of Dan's reply they were a little pissed he didn't get a hold of them before those results were posted. Which makes his tests even more valid obviously it was a serious issue or they wouldn't be reacting this way

I disagree if he'd never tested this it never would have been discovered and buyers would be drinking the Kool aid thinking there buying what Emotiva is claiming. Unacceptable. I believe if he hadn't posted they would have done what they tried to do on the first place just deny it and throw Shade on Amir

I don't believe he owes them anything FWIW I'm tired of these companies shoving rushed obviously not fully tested POS highly expensive audio equipment out in the wild and expecting us the buyer to suffer while they slowly send updates to fix it. It finally caught up to them and bit them in the ass. That's on them

Anything I pay thousand of dollars for better work as claimed straight out of the box with everything promised. I can understand a minor glitch every now and then those things happen but Arcam and Emotiva right now just completely unacceptable

 

[Danzilla31]

I think it's time to make another contribution to ASR. Amir is providing leadership value with his reviews.

I whole heartedly agree as of today I will be joining his forum and I will be donating

I really like him and his forum members they handled the back and forth on the issue way better then the Emotiva company and forum members did

It will never happen but I do believe they owe him an apology

I will never ever consider buying anything from Emotiva again. Not because of this but there attitude and reaction plus Genes experiences I was already there with what Gene went through this just drives it home further

 

[Danzilla31]

I also plan on donating here as well I need to better support Gene Shady Mathew as well ASR and audioholics science driven factual companies such as these with great forums and members are just a rare find I need to do more on my part to help these guys out

And I plan on doing that you guys have gotten me so far in this hobby I need to start paying that back

 

[PENG]

Maybe they should since he obviously found an error serious enough for them to publicly announce he was correct and send out an IMMEDIATE fix to address it almost unheard of for Emo

You can tell by the tone of Dan's reply they were a little pissed he didn't get a hold of them before those results were posted. Which makes his tests even more valid obviously it was a serious issue or they wouldn't be reacting this way

I disagree if he'd never tested this it never would have been discovered and buyers would be drinking the Kool aid thinking there buying what Emotiva is claiming. Unacceptable. I believe if he hadn't posted they would have done what they tried to do on the first place just deny it and throw Shade on Amir

I don't believe he owes them anything FWIW I'm tired of these companies shoving rushed obviously not fully tested POS highly expensive audio equipment out in the wild and expecting us the buyer to suffer while they slowly send updates to fix it. It finally caught up to them and bit them in the ass. That's on them

Anything I pay thousand of dollars for better work as claimed straight out of the box with everything promised. I can understand a minor glitch every now and then those things happen but Arcam and Emotiva right now just completely unacceptable

Amir said he emailed them prior as apparently he was told by the owner (iiuc)who loaned him the avp, that Emo wanted him to, got no response so he went ahead.........

 

[Danzilla31]

Amir said he emailed them prior as apparently he was told by the owner (iiuc)who loaned him the avp, that Emo wanted him to, got no response so he went ahead.........

Yeah I saw that too he's very open minded and is willing to work with people and suggestions this is on Emotiva not him