The popular Outlaw M2200 mono block power amp

[Alex2507]

a little patience

... and a whole lotta OCD!

 

[ryanosaur]

... and a whole lotta OCD!

Some will call it ocd, others, love.

 

[Pogre]

Nah. A few wire ties, a good power strip, and a little patience is all you need:

I’ve got slack behind the units with all cords pulled to center. Wire ties were every 6-8 inches. Just bundling those together was a huge help in my partial cable management plan. My long term goal after building a rack is to consolidate all power cords downwards and to the side closest to the outlet. All audio cables will go up and in the direction of their run. I’m tired of spaghetti parties behind my gear. Some is unavoidable, but...



Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.

Very nice n' neat looking Ryan. While getting to know you on these forums, I'm not even a little bit surprised. You seem very thorough.

 

[2channel lover]

Right, the power cords might even be a deal breaker for me. I have an awful lot going on behind all my stuff already with cords and wiring. Tho it is just cool to show your buddies the "stack of amps" you have running your system. Plus just the whole idea of having "true" separates and the lower cost makes it very attractive to me.

Talk about wires and power cords...yes, it kinda matters (and my loft area is wired with 6 outlets, two of them are home run wired to a 20 amp breakers plus a 15 amp breaker for the lights and other outlets)...I've given thought to adding two more monoblocks just to round out the 5 channels with the same juice and clean up my atmos wiring....right now 3 are powered by the 5 ch amp and 1 by the whole house amp.

Aside from new music, I'm just not in spend mode right now...all of my little audio loose ends to tighten up everything are mostly just thoughts.

 

[Alex2507]

Some will call it ocd, others, love.

Clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.
My wires get love too.

 

[Alex2507]

We all know for many movies, the center channel draws more power than any other channels on average, so it makes sense for me to use the 200/300W/8/4 ohms M2200 for the center channel, the Anthem 225WX2 for the L,R and the M8003 for the surrounds and heights.

I was just getting around to wondering how different amps, thrown together like that, behave as you crank up the volume if their gain structures (is that what you call it?) are different.

 

[PENG]

I was just getting around to wondering how different amps, thrown together like that, behave as you crank up the volume if their gain structures (is that what you call it?) are different.

For HT/Hi-fi application, you simply have to use power amplifiers with gain that matches to the preamplifier's output. That means it would be good practice to use a preamplifier that has output high enough to drive the power amplifier to deliver it's rated output plus a healthy headroom (3-6 dB I guess would be great, but that's just my opinion, ymmv). Other that that, for personal home use, I don't see a need to spend time on "gain structure".

If you want more, or say you do your own recording/mastering, here's an easy read at the minidsp.com website Gain structure 101.

Gain structure
The concept of gain structure is that, at each connection between components in the system, the signal level is as high as it can be (to minimize noise), but no higher than the maximum level that either component allows (so there is no distortion due to overload).

In the diagram below, the dynamic range of a music signal is indicated by a colored rectangle. The signal in red is too high, and will cause distortion. The signal in yellow is too low and the lower signals in the music are below the noise floor. The signal in green is "just right" and represents the ideal music signal level at that connection point. In an optimized system, each interconnection point would be "green" when the volume control is set to the maximum volume that you ever listen to.

It's not generally necessary to compute exactly all of the gains and signal levels throughout a system - understanding the principles of gain structure is usually enough to achieve a good result. The following tips cover the key points for a DSP-based system.

 

[Alex2507]

For HT/Hi-fi application, you simply have to use power amplifiers with gain that matches to the preamplifier's output. That means it would be good practice to use a preamplifier that has output high enough to drive the power amplifier to deliver it's rated output plus a healthy headroom (3-6 dB I guess would be great, but that's just my opinion, ymmv). Other that that, for personal home use, I don't see a need to spend time on "gain structure".

If you want more, or say you do your own recording/mastering, here's an easy read at the minidsp.com website Gain structure 101.

Gain structure
The concept of gain structure is that, at each connection between components in the system, the signal level is as high as it can be (to minimize noise), but no higher than the maximum level that either component allows (so there is no distortion due to overload).

In the diagram below, the dynamic range of a music signal is indicated by a colored rectangle. The signal in red is too high, and will cause distortion. The signal in yellow is too low and the lower signals in the music are below the noise floor. The signal in green is "just right" and represents the ideal music signal level at that connection point. In an optimized system, each interconnection point would be "green" when the volume control is set to the maximum volume that you ever listen to.

It's not generally necessary to compute exactly all of the gains and signal levels throughout a system - understanding the principles of gain structure is usually enough to achieve a good result. The following tips cover the key points for a DSP-based system.

Ah ... that does clear things up some. Thanks.

 

[RichB]

I have heard the M2200 driving my Revel Salon2s and my brother-in-laws Revel F206s.
I found them to sound quite good but when driving the F206's into the mid 80'dB range they sounded a bit harsh.

It would be nice to have a full measurements through the class-G switching level to evaluate the impact of this design.
If willing to send one, I suspect the Amir at AVScienceReview would measure it. Just a thought.

- Rich

 

[Auditor55]

I had one on those amps and got rid of it. Outlaw does not stand behind their product. I don't think I would ever buy one of their products again, terrible customer service.

 

[KEW]

I have heard the M2200 driving my Revel Salon2s and my brother-in-laws Revel F206s.
I found them to sound quite good but when driving the F206's into the mid 80'dB range they sounded a bit harsh.

It would be nice to have a full measurements through the class-G switching level to evaluate the impact of this design.
If willing to send one, I suspect the Amir at AVScienceReview would measure it. Just a thought.

- Rich

Do you have any knowledge of what makes the F206's harder to drive than the Salon2's?
Where is Amir located?
It would be good to know what type of load forces the 2200 up against the wall!

 

[RichB]

Do you have any knowledge of what makes the F206's harder to drive than the Salon2's?
Where is Amir located?
It would be good to know what type of load forces the 2200 up against the wall!

I did not mean to convey that the F206s are harder to drive than the Salon2's they are not.
When I listened to the M2200's I was not driving the Salon2's hard and they sounded very good.

At my brother-in-laws, I brought over a Parasound A21 and we level matched and compared them to his M2200's.
He listens loud and the purpose was to compare these amps when driven. During this session, selections playing where the mic was reading in the mid 85 dB range, the M2200s were no match for the A21, which is to be expected.

My impression of the F206's is that they are very nice and dynamic speakers. The Salon2's can seem laid back in comparison but, I suspect this is due to them reduced distortion which lends to listening carefully and, sometimes, a desire to raise the volume.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

At my brother-in-laws, I brought over a Parasound A21 and we level matched and compared them to his M2200's.
He listens loud and the purpose was to compare these amps when driven. During this session, selections playing where the mic was reading in the mid 85 dB range, the M2200s were no match for the A21, which is to be expected.



- Rich

Can you expand on this a bit? What about the 2200 was no match for the A21 in this volume range? Why would it be expected?

 

[RichB]

Can you expand on this a bit? What about the 2200 was no match for the A21 in this volume range? Why would it be expected?

Because we could play the system well over 80dB average without the A21 sounding harsh.
I just did not like the sound of this M2200 pushed. It's my impression that distortion was occurring.
Perpaphs it is the class G implementation when driving the F206's, I can't say for sure.

The A21 we pushed well into the mid 90s and never sounded harsh even when the heat sinks were getting hot.
The A21 is much more expensive amp, comparatively huge and heavy so there are other factors to consider but from a performance viewpoint, there was no comparison.

The M2200 is a fine product at its price level, but my impression is it sound best at when not pushed hard.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

Because we could play the system well over 80dB average without the A21 sounding harsh.
I just did not like the sound of this M2200 pushed. It's my impression that distortion was occurring.
Perpaphs it is the class G implementation when driving the F206's, I can't say for sure.

The A21 we pushed well into the mid 90s and never sounded harsh even when the heat sinks were getting hot.
The A21 is much more expensive amp, comparatively huge and heavy so there are other factors to consider but from a performance viewpoint, there was no comparison.

The M2200 is a fine product at its price level, but my impression is it sound best at when not pushed hard.

- Rich

Doesnt sound all that credible at all but then you're weird with amps....

 

[RichB]

Doesnt sound all that credible at all but then you're weird with amps....

I do sometimes compare amps level matched and after doing so, form opinions.
Others skip that step completely

I cannot find power sweeps or other measurements of this amplifier.
I sent Amir my ATI AT522NC for measurements, anyone interested in sending one in?
It's volunteer work so it may be gone for a while...

- Rich

 

[sharkman]

Amir is either a man with an agenda or he's on someone's payroll. Never have I seen anyone go after a brand like he does with Schiit Audio. For that reason, I don't believe he can be trusted. He has also demonstrated an ineptitude with testing methodology. YMMV.

On amps and speakers, I'm with you, Rich. It's not uncommon for an amp to sound great with some speakers and off putting with others. A NAD C375BEE I had sounded flat with Totem Rainmakers, and my Adcom 555SE was glorious. I also had an A21 at one point, and thought it was rolled off on top. Might have been something else at play.

 

[PENG]

So far from what I could see whenever he measured a device that Audioholic.com also measured, the results were consistent with one another. He seems knowledgeable enough for me to trust his methodologies, but I do feel he can do much better if he tries, in organizing his data as well as stating his measurement conditions much clearer than he has been. Actually he did that sometimes but not so much other times.

 

[lovinthehd]

Amir is either a man with an agenda or he's on someone's payroll. Never have I seen anyone go after a brand like he does with Schiit Audio. For that reason, I don't believe he can be trusted. He has also demonstrated an ineptitude with testing methodology. YMMV.

On amps and speakers, I'm with you, Rich. It's not uncommon for an amp to sound great with some speakers and off putting with others. A NAD C375BEE I had sounded flat with Totem Rainmakers, and my Adcom 555SE was glorious. I also had an A21 at one point, and thought it was rolled off on top. Might have been something else at play.

He's just a spec fiend so assume (and wouldn't be surprised) that Schiit doesn't measure all that well. Maybe he also had a bad experience? Dunno but Schiit gets fawned over way too much IMO.

 

[KEW]

I do sometimes compare amps level matched and after doing so, form opinions.
Others skip that step completely

I cannot find power sweeps or other measurements of this amplifier.
I sent Amir my ATI AT522NC for measurements, anyone interested in sending one in?
It's volunteer work so it may be gone for a while...

- Rich

I can send a 2200 for him to test!
Give me info on how to set it up either here or via PM as appropriate!
Thanks!