The popular Outlaw M2200 mono block power amp

[RichB]

I can send a 2200 for him to test!
Give me info on how to set it up either here or via PM as appropriate!
Thanks!

Great. The best way is to register on https://www.audiosciencereview.com and PM Amirm.
He has a large backlog so you might want to ask about the timeframe.

Here are the measurements for the Outlaw 5000M:

Outlaw Model 5000 Multichannel Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Outlaw Model 5000 five channel home theater amplifier. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. Despite the number of channels and power of each, the Model 5000 costs only US $649 though shipping adds fair bit to it. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

- Rich

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Amir is either a man with an agenda or he's on someone's payroll. Never have I seen anyone go after a brand like he does with Schiit Audio. For that reason, I don't believe he can be trusted. He has also demonstrated an ineptitude with testing methodology. YMMV.

On amps and speakers, I'm with you, Rich. It's not uncommon for an amp to sound great with some speakers and off putting with others. A NAD C375BEE I had sounded flat with Totem Rainmakers, and my Adcom 555SE was glorious. I also had an A21 at one point, and thought it was rolled off on top. Might have been something else at play.

Yeah... not so much:

Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amp Reviews

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amplifiers. It was kindly sent to me by the company. They both cost US $99 plus shipping from Schiit. The Magni 3+ is a discrete amplifier implementation whereas the Heresy uses integrated circuits...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Turns out that Schiit actually paid attention and improved their designs, based on Amir's testing. Two kinds of people out there: those who learn from constructive criticism and those who scream "troll!" or "shill!" whenever they hear a voice of dissent.

 

[PENG]

Great. The best way is to register on https://www.audiosciencereview.com and PM Amirm.
He has a large backlog so you might want to ask about the timeframe.

Here are the measurements for the Outlaw 5000M:

Outlaw Model 5000 Multichannel Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Outlaw Model 5000 five channel home theater amplifier. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. Despite the number of channels and power of each, the Model 5000 costs only US $649 though shipping adds fair bit to it. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

- Rich

Did you read the review/measurements of the older version of the M2200 by HTHF? I think the M2200 should measure about the same or a little better.

 

[RichB]

Did you read the review/measurements of the older version of the M2200 by HTHF? I think the M2200 should measure about the same or a little better.

Yes, and it has some good measurements but lacks distortion versus power that could show the affect of rail switching.

- Rich

 

[KEW]

Amir is either a man with an agenda or he's on someone's payroll. Never have I seen anyone go after a brand like he does with Schiit Audio. For that reason, I don't believe he can be trusted. He has also demonstrated an ineptitude with testing methodology. YMMV.

?????
I decided to see what he said about Schiit Audio (the bold is not mine):

Conclusions
The Schiit Aegir is a competently designed amplifier with solid build quality and no design mistakes. It shows the power of proper measurements and engineering verification to remove the element of surprise in third-party verification job we perform here.

The main issue here is lack of power. To someone like me, with very large spaces, rather inefficient speakers and desire for bass that you feel as much as you here, the Aegir is definitely not for me. Nor do I buy into "Class A" having any benefit. If it had, it would show up in measurements. It does not.

If have efficient speakers and/or don't listen very loud, the Aegir is a solid offering from a western company. I am going to put the Schiit Aegir on my recommended list for its solid engineering and design. Fitness for application is up to you!

That seems like a fair (and positive) review to me! Many people buying an $800 power amp would expect it to drive their speakers, so I think, at 23WPC into 4 Ohms it is reasonable for him to caution about it. I would have rated it much lower given that they are advertising it as an 80 watt amp.
Do you believe he is cooking his data to hurt Schiit? Are there measurements from anyone else? Amirm would lose credibility very quickly if he was falsifying his measurements.
In any case it seems to me that Amirm is being very generous!
That said, this is the only Schiit review I read! Which review are you referring to?

 

[PENG]

Yes, and it has some good measurements but lacks distortion versus power that could show the affect of rail switching.

- Rich

I am not worried about the 2 microsecond switching time but you have better ears.

 

[RichB]

I am not worried about the 2 microsecond switching time but you have better ears.

That spec may not be only source for distortion, linear and harmonic.
Amplifiers specifications are usually best near maximum power which is not where folks are going to notice it.
It is at low power that critical listening occurs, 1 watt and below and the M2200 sounds good at those levels.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

That spec may not be only source for distortion, linear and harmonic.
Amplifiers specifications are usually best near maximum power which is not where folks are going to notice it.
It is at low power that critical listening occurs, 1 watt and below and the M2200 sounds good at those levels.

- Rich

I know, and I never use more than 25-50 W during the highest peaks.

 

[sharkman]

Yeah... not so much:

Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amp Reviews

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amplifiers. It was kindly sent to me by the company. They both cost US $99 plus shipping from Schiit. The Magni 3+ is a discrete amplifier implementation whereas the Heresy uses integrated circuits...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Turns out that Schiit actually paid attention and improved their designs, based on Amir's testing. Two kinds of people out there: those who learn from constructive criticism and those who scream "troll!" or "shill!" whenever they hear a voice of dissent.

My point was that I've never seen someone go after a brand like Amir.(Many models over a few years) I'm not sure how Schiit changing up their marketing a bit disproves my comment. It actually kind of supports it.

Either way, it seems to me that sales of small dacs and headphone amps has been steadily growing over the last few years. I bought a couple of them and I've never even been a headphone guy. Now I'm trying to decide if I should have a headphone rig at work!

 

[lovinthehd]

My point was that I've never seen someone go after a brand like Amir.(Many models over a few years) I'm not sure how Schiit changing up their marketing a bit disproves my comment. It actually kind of supports it.

Either way, it seems to me that sales of small dacs and headphone amps has been steadily growing over the last few years. I bought a couple of them and I've never even been a headphone guy. Now I'm trying to decide if I should have a headphone rig at work!

Curious, what did Schiit change about their marketing?

 

[sharkman]

That may have been poorly worded on my part. I'm referring to kvn's reference of Schiit releasing a discrete circuit based unit and a opamp based version of the magni at the same time and encouraging people to try both. The idea is that Schiit did this in response to Amir.

 

[Pogre]

I think Amir "goes after" a lot of brands and needs to be taken with a grain of salt across the board, but his measurements that I've seen usually correlate with others for same product. I try to stick to that and pretty much skip over his subjective comments.

 

[lovinthehd]

That may have been poorly worded on my part. I'm referring to kvn's reference of Schiit releasing a discrete circuit based unit and a opamp based version of the magni at the same time and encouraging people to try both. The idea is that Schiit did this in response to Amir.

Thanks, more than I know....seems Schiit relies mostly on their name and audio press for marketing and hadn't noticed any particular change.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think Amir "goes after" a lot of brands and needs to be taken with a grain of salt across the board, but his measurements that I've seen usually correlate with others for same product. I try to stick to that and pretty much skip over his subjective comments.

Yet he came from Microsoft, so go figure

 

[PENG]

I think Amir "goes after" a lot of brands and needs to be taken with a grain of salt across the board, but his measurements that I've seen usually correlate with others for same product. I try to stick to that and pretty much skip over his subjective comments.

Me too, stick to data, be objective.. Subjective comments have much less to do with facts anyway. To some people, 3rd harmonic sound better than 2nd, while others say the opposite, go figure..

 

[lovinthehd]

Me too, stick to data, be objective.. Subjective comments have much less to do with facts anyway. To some people, 3rd harmonic sound better than 2nd, while others say the opposite, go figure..

I was just thinking about this sort of thing earlier today. Guys (and audio enthusiasts tends to be male, but I include both sexes with guys anyways) who have trouble expression emotion, asking for directions, reading manuals etc aren't necessarily the most reliable source when asked to describe audio.

 

[RichB]

Me too, stick to data, be objective.. Subjective comments have much less to do with facts anyway. To some people, 3rd harmonic sound better than 2nd, while others say the opposite, go figure..

Or just choose less harmonic distortion.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

Or just chose less harmonic distortion.

- Rich

So you can hear the difference in extremely small amounts?

 

[RichB]

So you can hear the difference in extremely small amounts?

So you can't.

If you want to talk about what is audible below the noise floor or something intelligent about THD and the absolute level of distortion that would be worthwhile. If you want to bait, I'm not interested.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

So you can't.

If you want to talk about what is audible below the noise floor or something intelligent about THD and the absolute level of distortion that would be worthwhile. If you want to bait, I'm not interested.

- Rich

I just want to know about actual audibility rather than spec-encouraged audibility possibilites. If you can demonstrate your ability to determine particular levels of THD audibility with what particular gear I'd be impressed but I certainly don't expect you to be able to do so....