The popular Outlaw M2200 mono block power amp

[ryanosaur]

Sorry... didn't mean to tangent this into a speaker thread. Thank you for the advice! I just learned about the Philharmonics yesterday and will look when I have a moment.

Peng, indeed. Those cats are not writing anything but their own opinion, and we all know about opinions! For example, I get that the KEF Q series are good speakers. Are they right for me? Im not going to avoid listening to a set at my local shop because a couple reviewers commented about some dullness in the mids or bass or whatever. That being said, when I read multiple reviews across the MA Silver product line and the only poor comment was about their FX speakers, hell, I WANT to hear those, and so I planned my budget for a full 7 speaker set. Now I can afford them if I want, but I can also buy Revel, Martin Logan or Kefs all around the same price point! Right now my front runners aren't even on this list and I can almost afford a full 7.2 lineup and the amp to drive the front 3. If I don't like those when I hear them, I can always fall back on the others. and maybe the Emo DR-3 turns back into my fantasy stack of 7 2200 monoblocks! (Hell, I could buy-amp all 14!) (Now i'm just getting silly.)

See, I did bring it back to the AMPs!

You guys rock!

 

[Verdinut]

Nice, Peng. Thank you for posting about that. You alluded to some discrepancies before re what the outlaws had posted on their site. As much as I like them (on paper),and respect the opinions of the people I know that are using outlaw, I might actually be moving away from them. (My fantasies of a bank of outlaw monoblocks may remain just that... though I might look back favorably when it comes time to power my 4 surrounds.)
My speaker quest is leading me in a different direction now, and I might be leaving the main scene behind. I'm still going to drive an hour to listen to the Monitor Audio Silver 500s, and maybe visit the demon in its lair at a local Magnolia, just for kicks. But then... Utah? If this pans out I'm staring right down the line at an Emotiva XPA-DR3 for the front 3. My Marantz SR6012 will handle surround detail for the short term, but then its on to a second amp, or a second-third-fourth-and-fifth 2200.

Greetings,

You plan to get amplifiers to drive your 4 surround speakers. Here is an excellent deal on which I would jump if I were in your shoes. As a matter of fact. it's a QSC DCA 1824, a 4 channel amp with a rated power output of 170w/ch at 8 ohms and 325w/ ch with a 4 ohm load.

In my system, I am using one for my surrounds as well as 3 DCA 1222s to drive the front channels in an active bi-amp configuration. QSC Audio has an outstanding reputation for excellent dependable products. In fact, their DCA Series of amps (Digital Cinema Amplifiers) is used in all Cineplex theaters across North America and overseas as well.

On eBay, there is one DCA 1824 selling for $235, but I'm 99% sure that the seller will accept $200 if you make an offer. This amp retails new at over US$1100. At $200 or so, it's a real bargain. Please note that these amps cannot be blown and they have excellent specs. About the missing terminal block(s),those are easy to get as they are widely used in the pro audio market:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/QSC-DAC-1824-4-Channel-Power-Amplifier-missing-terminal-block/223179999519?hash=item33f690891f:g:iSoAAOSwtbxbundl:rk:1:pf:0

https://www.qsc.com/cinema/products/power-amplifiers/dca-series/dca-1824/

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/my-7-channel-system.111234/

With the money saved, this means more to put on speakers.

Cheers,

 

[PENG]

I measured the gain of the M2200, it was about 28.1 dB vs the Anthem MCA20's 28.7 dB. Both measured using the unbalanced input. The Outlaw website spec is incorrect afaic.. Anthem is good, spec'ed 29 dB, close enough.

 

[ryanosaur]

I measured the gain of the M2200, it was about 28.1 dB vs the Anthem MCA20's 28.7 dB. Both measured using the unbalanced input. The Outlaw website spec is incorrect afaic.. Anthem is good, spec'ed 29 dB, closed enough.

My conversation with one of their tech dudes gave me the impression they like to be a little conservative in their claims. They state 200wRMS/300wRMS too, but he said it was likely closer to 300/400 in real world. *shrugs Better that they report low and deliver high, rather than report high and screw us all. Thanks for reporting back on that!

 

[PENG]

My conversation with one of their tech dudes gave me the impression they like to be a little conservative in their claims. They state 200wRMS/300wRMS too, but he said it was likely closer to 300/400 in real world. *shrugs Better that they report low and deliver high, rather than report high and screw us all. Thanks for reporting back on that!

Agreed, and I don't mind them reporting a gain of 27 dB instead of my measured 28.1 dB. The significance of that difference in gain is, with 28.1 dB gain, you need 1.575 V input to yield the rated output of 200 W, with 27 dB gain you will get 155.4 W. Or conversely, based on the 1.7 V input specified and my measured gain of 28.1 dB, you will end up getting 233 W instead of 181 W if based on the Outlaw specified gain of 27 dB. So you are right, their gain spec was on the conservative side for sure.

The incorrectness that I referred to was more about the gain and sensitivity figures published on their website as shown below.

Gain: +27dB for full output
(1.7V XLR input sensitivity)
(850mV RCA input sensitivity)

That apparently was changed shortly after I suggested that they should specify clearly whether the sensitivity reported was for RCA of XLR.

Prior to my phone call (not sure if my call prompted the change), they simply stated:

Gain: +27dB for full output

After taking the measurements, I think it should be stated more like below:
Gain: +28 dB (approx.),1.6 V (approx.) RCA input, x.xx V XLR (approx.)

So you can see that for people who don't question, or not interested in specs corroboration regarding gain and input sensitivities, those two figures (4 if one uses balanced inputs also), won't mean much to them. For those who do pay attention to those figures, Outlaw might scare away some potential AVR/AVP or preamp owners who may or may not have valid concern about their gear won't have high enough pre out voltages.

You can also see that their updated specs now are even more messed up, because while on the gain side they are quite conservative, but on the input sensitivity they are now actually misleading. It could lead people to believe they only need 850 mV to drive the amp to the rated output of 200 W into 8 ohm, when in fact you will only get about 57 W.

If you want to see more informative specs on gain and input sensitivities, take a look of Monolith's.
https://downloads.monoprice.com/files/manuals/14566_Manual_180419.pdf

On page 12, they provided both input sensitivity and gain, and for both RCA and XLR inputs. I check for corroboration on the RCA set of data and they are quite accurate, no idea about the figures for XLR other than they don't seem to bear the typical 2:1 ration.

 

[PENG]

That being said, when I read multiple reviews across the MA Silver product line and the only poor comment was about their FX speakers, hell, I WANT to hear those, and so I planned my budget for a full 7 speaker set.

Agreed, but only if there are many such reviews, such as >10, because then we can at least trust the rule of probability. I used to pay a lot of attention to the how people described the sound of various speakers they listened to, and I did take them more seriously too. In recent years, I learnt that it is only important to take note of the negative things they mentioned, and only if there is a pattern, consistency across the board such as at least 6 out of 10 cited similar issues.

 

[KEW]

@ryanosaur , how are these working out for you?
I believe you have posted a photo, but I can't remember ... do you have all 5 stacked? Do they stay cool?
I have stacked a pair without any temperature concerns, but I was wondering about 5, if you've tried it!

 

[ryanosaur]

@ryanosaur , how are these working out for you?
I believe you have posted a photo, but I can't remember ... do you have all 5 stacked? Do they stay cool?
I have stacked a pair without any temperature concerns, but I was wondering about 5, if you've tried it!

They are great. Zero complaints to voice. Considering I rarely come close to taxing them (in all likelihood), they do what I want and do it well.
I do not have them stacked 5 high, rather two double stacks for Left and Right side Front and Surround, with the Center Channel Amp straddling the two. They stay much cooler than the AVR does... after some good sessions, they are slightly war, but not alarmingly so... definitely not hot. Additional cooling is not even a thought with them.

 

[ryanosaur]

From back in late December:

And when I was first setting up the 3s end of May.

Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.

 

[2channel lover]

@ryanosaur , how are these working out for you?
I believe you have posted a photo, but I can't remember ... do you have all 5 stacked? Do they stay cool?
I have stacked a pair without any temperature concerns, but I was wondering about 5, if you've tried it!

I have 3 stacked....no issues so far.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

From back in late December:

And when I was first setting up the 3s end of May.

Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.

Really nice system.

 

[Pogre]

I would definitely have considered a few of these instead of the Monolith if I didn't already have it.

 

[Pogre]

From back in late December:

And when I was first setting up the 3s end of May.

Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.

Very nice Ryan! That stack of 5 looks pretty cool. I'll bet those Phils put a smile on your face every day.

 

[PENG]

I would definitely have considered a few of these instead of the Monolith if I didn't already have it.

The nicest things about them are the weight, just have to manage multiple power cords..

 

[Pogre]

The nicest things about them are the weight, just have to manage multiple power cords..

Right, the power cords might even be a deal breaker for me. I have an awful lot going on behind all my stuff already with cords and wiring. Tho it is just cool to show your buddies the "stack of amps" you have running your system. Plus just the whole idea of having "true" separates and the lower cost makes it very attractive to me.

 

[Auditor55]

From back in late December:

And when I was first setting up the 3s end of May.

Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.

How are they driving those speakers?

 

[Auditor55]

From back in late December:

And when I was first setting up the 3s end of May.

Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.

You need a bigger screen, that's too much audio and not enough video.

 

[Verdinut]

The nicest things about them are the weight, just have to manage multiple power cords..

There are several other advantages with separate amps:

1. When you are listening to CDs, you can keep the center and surround amps off and therefore save on electricity.
2. When one amp becomes defective, you still have the others available while it is out for repair.

 

[Shanman]

How bout a Schiit Vidar?

 

[ryanosaur]

Right, the power cords might even be a deal breaker for me. I have an awful lot going on behind all my stuff already with cords and wiring. Tho it is just cool to show your buddies the "stack of amps" you have running your system. Plus just the whole idea of having "true" separates and the lower cost makes it very attractive to me.

Nah. A few wire ties, a good power strip, and a little patience is all you need:

I’ve got slack behind the units with all cords pulled to center. Wire ties were every 6-8 inches. Just bundling those together was a huge help in my partial cable management plan. My long term goal after building a rack is to consolidate all power cords downwards and to the side closest to the outlet. All audio cables will go up and in the direction of their run. I’m tired of spaghetti parties behind my gear. Some is unavoidable, but...



Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.