Setting speakers to Large and also crossover to 60 hz and above with LFE + MAIN

[Sachb]

The manual says that the optimal setting for Elac C6.2 would be 80 hz.
It doesn't say what would be the optimal for B6.2.

You can check the pic below.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Sachb]

I feel that the higher you go in crossover, it's sweetness is gone.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[everettT]

I feel that the higher you go in crossover, it's sweetness is gone.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

I run my crossovers a lot higher than 80hz, and can't be more pleased. Your sub can play pretty high up,-3db 225hz according to S&V, so a crossover at 110hz might sound really good, try it. Obviously I'm assuming you have your subwoofer dialed in.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The LFE+Main setting is well known, at least here at Audioholics.com, just do a key word search you will see what I mean.

The bottom line is, if you prefer the effects of LFE+Main and speakers large settings then go for it, but if you were to aim for accuracy, neutrality then I am confident LFE and small (80 Hz or high XO) will do much better. I know so because I have done numerous experiment using different settings, and confirm the effects/results with REW.

If you just consider the logic and facts (specs):

Elec Debut 6.2 specs - Nominal 6 ohms, 87 dB/2.83 V/1m, max power input 120 watts, 6.5" bass driver

ASW250 - 100 W avg., 250 W peak, 10" woofer

You can see the benefits if you off load the Elac in the <80 Hz range. They will thank you, and will sing better in the 80-250 mid bass range. The AVR, especially if you have a lower mid range model, will also thank you because they won't be working as hard. Overall, your system will do better in the mid and high range as well if you set XO to 80 Hz. In fact, I would go with 100 Hz for those speakers.

However, perceived sound quality is largely a subjective thing, so if you prefer the LFE+Main and "large" settings, then go for it and none of us can change you mind. We can only offer opinions and theoretical benefits of one vs the other.

By the way, Stereophole measured the B6, you B6.2 should be similar. Below is the impedance/phase angle vs freq graph. Your AVR will definitely be happier if you set them to "small" and XO at 100 or even 110 Hz. Ask @AcuDefTechGuy about why he set his speakers (bigger than yours I assume..) to small.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-debut-b6-loudspeaker-measurements

View attachment 31810

Yeah I set all my speakers I ever owned to small and XO to 100Hz or 120Hz. Why can’t I ever remember? Must be getting old.

All Speakers I’ve owned are listed in my signature at bottom, like Salon2, B&W 802D2, etc.

Reason: I don’t like to stress out my expensive speakers and I love the bass sound from my subwoofers.

 

[ryanosaur]

I feel that the higher you go in crossover, it's sweetness is gone.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Is that sweetness like fudge or caramel? Those must be delicious speakers!

The point you crossover isn’t a hard cut. Most AVRs use a 12dB slope. If you cross at 90, your speaker is still receiving and producing sound at 45Hz, though be it at the diminished dB level. Your sub is picking up the slack though and reinforcing that range. If you watch closely, you’ll see that woofer move still at 33Hz. It likely won’t be producing anything audible, but that signal is still delivered to the speaker.
At large, a full range, 33Hz signal at reference level might blow out your woofer.

 

[PENG]

If you watch closely, you’ll see that woofer move still at 33Hz. It likely won’t be producing anything audible, but that signal is still delivered to the speaker.
At large, a full range, 33Hz signal at reference level might blow out your woofer.

Excellent point!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is that sweetness like fudge or caramel? Those must be delicious speakers!

The point you crossover isn’t a hard cut. Most AVRs use a 12dB slope. If you cross at 90, your speaker is still receiving and producing sound at 45Hz, though be it at the diminished dB level. Your sub is picking up the slack though and reinforcing that range. If you watch closely, you’ll see that woofer move still at 33Hz. It likely won’t be producing anything audible, but that signal is still delivered to the speaker.
At large, a full range, 33Hz signal at reference level might blow out your woofer.

After the woofer is blown, it won’t taste so sweet.

 

[lovinthehd]

I feel that the higher you go in crossover, it's sweetness is gone.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

I don't know what sweetness you're referring to, but I find a higher crossover is better, even with more capable speakers than your ELACs. I have towers, much more capable than your ELACs, for L/R and surrounds and still cross them at 110.

According to S&Vs measurements, the ASWs 3db is 38hz and your Elac have a 3db of 44hz. I'm not sure how much impact you are gonna get with a 60hz crossover.

Just looked at that, and that was a close-miked measurement....definitely room for improvement on that sub.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't know what sweetness you're referring to, but I find a higher crossover is better, even with more capable speakers than your ELACs. I have towers, much more capable than your ELACs, for L/R and surrounds and still cross them at 110.

Oh yeah, well mine’s at.....at.......at.......at 120. Take that!

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh yeah, well mine’s at.....at.......at.......at 120. Take that!

Mine are at 120 now....make yer move, pahdner!

 

[Sachb]

What about small and 80hz?? Elac recommends it.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Sachb]

I don't know what sweetness you're referring to, but I find a higher crossover is better, even with more capable speakers than your ELACs. I have towers, much more capable than your ELACs, for L/R and surrounds and still cross them at 110.



Just looked at that, and that was a close-miked measurement....definitely room for improvement on that sub.

It's the SQ, I was talking about, many have said that lower crossovers produce smooth frequency response for SQ and higher crossover provide better SPL. Up to a point.

We all audiophiles here aim for SQ.

It seems 80 hz should be the sweet spot for my speakers as there is a compromise of both the situation.

Even Elac recommends it. That's how the manufacturer intended for listening to it.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Sachb]

Oh yeah, well mine’s at.....at.......at.......at 120. Take that!

I used to do 120s on my BA A2310hts. Sub localization is also to be considered when setting the crossover that high.



Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

It's the SQ, I was talking about, many have said that lower crossovers produce smooth frequency response for SQ and higher crossover provide better SPL. Up to a point.

We all audiophiles here aim for SQ.

It seems 80 hz should be the sweet spot for my speakers as there is a compromise of both the situation.

Even Elac recommends it. That's how the manufacturer intended for listening to it.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

SQ can be largely subjective, too (i.e. preference over reference). Audiophile is merely one who is enthusiastic about high fidelity audio reproduction. Elac is only providing a general recommendation. Localization can be an issue, but I have multiple subs and localization is not an issue for me.

 

[snakeeyes]

90hz is the holy grail.... LOL

 

[ryanosaur]

What about small and 80hz?? Elac recommends it.

Pondering, if ELAC recommended jumping off a bridge...



Questing for the best acoustics and sound gear is not best left to the marketing team of Jim-Bob Joe and Buford T Hearthis to tell you what to do!

I think XO at 120 is high. But it works for some, and that's fine! Localization shouldn't be a consideration until 120Hz, though some will say they can hear it at 100 or 110.

I still think if you did 90 and 110 for your speakers, set to small, set sub to LFE, and LFE to 120 Hz, you will have a good starting point for experimentation.

Without Knowing the rest of your room setup and size [read:volume], etc... I can only speculate that you are way under-woofed. That Boston Acoustics may be a good mid-bass type module, but it isn't going to fill in the low end of much. Two good SVS PB2000s, for example, OR 2 Hsu VTF2s, will completely change the dynamics of your HT and Music experience. Properly dialed in, you won't be able to localize them, and your ears will be dripping with warm fudge and caramel goo! Bet.

 

[Sachb]

Pondering, if ELAC recommended jumping off a bridge...



Questing for the best acoustics and sound gear is not best left to the marketing team of Jim-Bob Joe and Buford T Hearthis to tell you what to do!

I think XO at 120 is high. But it works for some, and that's fine! Localization shouldn't be a consideration until 120Hz, though some will say they can hear it at 100 or 110.

I still think if you did 90 and 110 for your speakers, set to small, set sub to LFE, and LFE to 120 Hz, you will have a good starting point for experimentation.

Without Knowing the rest of your room setup and size [read:volume], etc... I can only speculate that you are way under-woofed. That Boston Acoustics may be a good mid-bass type module, but it isn't going to fill in the low end of much. Two good SVS PB2000s, for example, OR 2 Hsu VTF2s, will completely change the dynamics of your HT and Music experience. Properly dialed in, you won't be able to localize them, and your ears will be dripping with warm fudge and caramel goo! Bet.

I cannot afford SVS, but the Elac Debut 2.0 SUB 3010 does come close to what I wanna spend for sub alone.
Is it gonna be an upgrade over ASW 250 BA?

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd say keep the Boston sub and save up some money for a better sub....it doesn't look to be much different.

 

[ryanosaur]

Please don't misunderstand... I'm not trying to turn this in to a "go buy 2 subs" conversation. I do think its important to be open and consider what might benefit you, though.
Since you brought it up: I don't think the ELAC Sub will.
Learn a little about Sub performance... start a new thread here when you are getting closer... consider some of the budget options that could help you out:
Dayton Sub1200 or Bic F12... very inexpensive, but both get nods when trying to piece together a budget rig.

Lovin' nailed it, though. Save up. You don't have to shoot the moon and go for broke. A Hsu VTF2 is possibly one of the best values in quality woofage. $539 plus $68 in shipping. Unless you are in an enormous room, this would be one of my first choices if I were building a system today in a medium sized room.

But for you, now, I think you should get comfortable playing around with your Crossover frequencies and sub settings, and see what you can accomplish. That won't cost you anything but some time. Learn to listen critically and have some fun doing it!

 

[VonMagnum]

I just replied to OPs thread-surrection of a 2year old thread.

I agree with Sterling.
OP, you are going to potentially damage your speakers. Not a guarantee, but I would not expect that they instaled a high pass filter to protect the woofer from over-excursing if sent a 20Hz signal at volume. Also LFE+Main can muddy the bass.
If anything, my recommendation to you would be to start saving for a better subwoofer.

Isn't that kind of like saying that you shouldn't play movies through any regular speakers without adding a high-pass or shouldn't use TV speakers EVER for fear that a 25Hz signal might blow them to bits? I think it's safe to say that unless you're using an EQ boost to send ungodly amounts of bass to regular speakers, they won't normally blow up just by using them with movies. Now whether they blend OK with subwoofers is another matter. I would think if Audyssey would adjust them at the same time as the sub, it could achieve a really great result (more bass sources in the room, the more even it can be, but this has to be adjusted this way to avoid peaks too). I don't know that Audyssey will do that, however.