Setting speakers to Large and also crossover to 60 hz and above with LFE + MAIN

[little wing]

Many rooms have a suck-out in the 80-120Hz range, and raising the crossover point can help fill in most or all of it. Measurement at your listening seat is a powerful tool for bass tuning.

I didn't know raising the crossover would help with nulls. There is a PEQ in my receiver menu for the subwoofer, but I don't touch it because I really don't know what I'm doing. I have no measurement equipment. I know when I walk around my room, the bass sounds different in different places in the room.

With what you said earlier about folks here who enjoy a lot of bass, my puny Rythmik F12 would never do, LOL. but I actually feel like there is adequate bass in my 12 1/2' by 17' room. Bass sounds tight and punchy with some music, but sounds fuller with other music. I guess it depends on the recording. When I switch between using a sub and the Pure Direct setting (2.0) It's quite noticeable. When I walk out of the room and listen to music, say, when I'm cooking or whatever, the bass does drop quite a bit. So, I wonder sometimes would it be worth it to pony up another $900 for a second sub. I definitely don't want anything bigger then the F12, it's the perfect size without being intrusive into the room.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is strange that, Audyssey wants me to use 40 hz and small for the ELAC B6.2s and C6.2.

I recalibrated using the MultEQ app.


I also created a seperate thread for the weird dippy graph which I got using MultEQ app: https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/huge-dips-in-multeq-app-graph.116071/

Not really Audyssey but rather Denon; Audyssey with a sub just recommends you start with bass management (i.e. speakers set to small) and a crossover of 80 hz as a general rule. The Denon would recommend the speakers as "large" or full range had it measured a lower f3. I'd simply raise the crossover to 80 to start, try higher and lower, too to see if you have a preference if you're not measuring (but Audyssey doesn't recommend going lower than the recommended crossover by the avr).

 

[Pogre]

I didn't know raising the crossover would help with nulls.

As with so much of this hobby, it depends. I think it works for me because I've gone another step with REW, a good measurement mic and a MiniDSP. I have a lot more control over the fr of my subs and can measure more accurately. Some nulls can't be helped with different crossovers or even peq. I'm gonna say I got a little lucky to boot.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I didn't know raising the crossover would help with nulls. There is a PEQ in my receiver menu for the subwoofer, but I don't touch it because I really don't know what I'm doing. I have no measurement equipment. I know when I walk around my room, the bass sounds different in different places in the room.

With what you said earlier about folks here who enjoy a lot of bass, my puny Rythmik F12 would never do, LOL. but I actually feel like there is adequate bass in my 12 1/2' by 17' room. Bass sounds tight and punchy with some music, but sounds fuller with other music. I guess it depends on the recording. When I switch between using a sub and the Pure Direct setting (2.0) It's quite noticeable. When I walk out of the room and listen to music, say, when I'm cooking or whatever, the bass does drop quite a bit. So, I wonder sometimes would it be worth it to pony up another $900 for a second sub. I definitely don't want anything bigger then the F12, it's the perfect size without being intrusive into the room.

If the sub is placed in a significantly different location than the L/R speakers the in-room response for the sub can vary enough that the dips the L/R speakers generate and the sub generates average out a bit. Personally, I place my L/R speakers for smoothest response above 200Hz and best imaging, which means they're quite far away from the back and side walls. That isn't typically a good strategy for best bass response, so I place the sub differently, run the mains full-range, and then use PEQs in the sub to smooth the response at my listening seat. Trying to do something like this by ear with test tones is possible, but I find the result is always too bass-heavy. Investing in REW or OmniMic is the way to go.

I have a 12" sealed sub too, and for the music and videos I tend to watch it really fills out my desktop system, which is in a relatively large room. Sub discussions around here sometimes remind me of Dodge Hellcat as a street car discussions on some automotive forums. The question that comes to mind is: Seriously?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

As with so much of this hobby, it depends. I think it works for me because I've gone another step with REW, a good measurement mic and a MiniDSP. I have a lot more control over the fr of my subs and can measure more accurately. Some nulls can't be helped with different crossovers or even peq. I'm gonna say I got a little lucky to boot.

Sometimes adding a couple feet in the AVR to the sub can help with the XO transition too. This can also tighten up impulse response. Yay!

 

[lovinthehd]

Article relating to such https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1-page-5

 

[PENG]

This is strange that, Audyssey wants me to use 40 hz and small for the ELAC B6.2s and C6.2.

I recalibrated using the MultEQ app.


I also created a seperate thread for the weird dippy graph which I got using MultEQ app: https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/huge-dips-in-multeq-app-graph.116071/View attachment 31839

Audyssey did not do it, your receiver (Denon?) did it. Denon/Marantz have their own algorithm to determine the large, small and XO settings. Audyssey always recommend setting speakers to small, though they are fine with large for units that came with the XT32 subEQ version if that's what the owners prefer. As for XO, they also recommended 80 Hz more often than not.

 

[Sachb]

Audyssey did not do it, your receiver (Denon?) did it. Denon/Marantz have their own algorithm to determine the large, small and XO settings. Audyssey always recommend setting speakers to small, though they are fine with large for units that came with the XT32 subEQ version if that's what the owners prefer. As for XO, they also recommended 80 Hz more often than not.

For now I have settled for 80 hz, anything higher and it becomes harsh I feel.

My BA A23 surrounds should be set to 80 hz or higher?? They are small 3.5" Satellite speakers. Do surround speakers produce any audible bass?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

For now I have settled for 80 hz, anything higher and it becomes harsh I feel.

My BA A23 surrounds should be set to 80 hz or higher?? They are small 3.5" Satellite speakers. Do surround speakers produce any audible bass?

Wow, 3.5”. Without knowing their f3 I would probably go with 120hz. 3.5 is really small. There can be bass in those channels but it will get redirected to the sub below XO anyway. With the exception of a bed layer of full range towers, most of our surrounds are set between 80-150hz.

 

[snakeeyes]

Wow, 3.5”. Without knowing their f3 I would probably go with 120hz. 3.5 is really small. There can be bass in those channels but it will get redirected to the sub below XO anyway. With the exception of a bed layer of full range towers, most of our surrounds are set between 80-150hz.

Ya I’m guessing he needs 110hz or 120hz too.

 

[panteragstk]

Ya I’m guessing he needs 110hz or 120hz too.

Or even 120hz to 150hz. I've got two tiny satellite speakers as my surrounds in my office and I think I set them at 150hz. My mains are 80hz and the sub is at 100hz IIRC. Bass in that small room sounds great.

My theater has 4 surrounds with dual 3" mid/woofer and those are set to 120hz. Mains are rated as for f3 of 35hz or so, but I've got them at 60hz and it sounds fine. I tried 80hz and couldn't really tell a difference.

 

[snakeeyes]

Or even 120hz to 150hz. I've got two tiny satellite speakers as my surrounds in my office and I think I set them at 150hz. My mains are 80hz and the sub is at 100hz IIRC. Bass in that small room sounds great.
My theater has 4 surrounds with dual 3" mid/woofer and those are set to 120hz. Mains are rated as for f3 of 35hz or so, but I've got them at 60hz and it sounds fine. I tried 80hz and couldn't really tell a difference.

I’m curious what my dual 4.5 in RSL C34E ceiling speakers will be set at when I install them in 2 weeks but hoping 90hz works well.

 

[ryanosaur]

I’m curious what my dual 4.5 in RSL C34E ceiling speakers will be set at when I install them in 2 weeks but hoping 90hz works well.

looks like they are spec'd at 70Hz... I would go 140... probably get away with 120, maybe 110.

 

[snakeeyes]

looks like they are spec'd at 70Hz... I would go 140... probably get away with 120, maybe 110.

I wonder what @William Lemmerhirt uses on his RSL C34E and what @Danzilla31 had his at?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’m curious what my dual 4.5 in RSL C34E ceiling speakers will be set at when I install them in 2 weeks but hoping 90hz works well.

The literature in the box says to set them at 80. Joe also recommended that.
Audyssey put mine at different XO’s probably due to my angled ceiling. And I went with 100hz for now.

 

[snakeeyes]

The literature in the box says to set them at 80. Joe also recommended that.
Audyssey put mine at different XO’s probably due to my angled ceiling. And I went with 100hz for now.

I’m hoping for some good Atmos from upcoming shows like the 2nd season of Altered Carbon on Netflix. I also am looking forward to any movies with helicopters. LOL

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’m hoping for some good Atmos from upcoming shows like the 2nd season of Altered Carbon on Netflix. I also am looking forward to any movies with helicopters. LOL

Lol. It’s much better than all that but I definitely hear ya. I am enjoying mine, and glad I did it.

 

[Danzilla31]

I wonder what @William Lemmerhirt uses on his RSL C34E and what @Danzilla31 had his at?

I had mine crossed at 100. They sounded great there. My new ones have an 8 inch woofer in them and can handle quiet a bit of power but I still cross them at 100 in the new room matter of fact in the new room it sounds much better with my front 3 crossed over at 100 sides at 120 and ceiling at 100 and I just let the PB 4000's handle the rest

 

[snakeeyes]

I had mine crossed at 100. They sounded great there. My new ones have an 8 inch woofer in them and can handle quiet a bit of power but I still cross them at 100 in the new room matter of fact in the new room it sounds much better with my front 3 crossed over at 100 sides at 120 and ceiling at 100 and I just let the PB 4000's handle the rest

Cool. I’ll try 100hz first.
By the way, that new Joker movie is crazy!!!

 

[Danzilla31]

Cool. I’ll try 100hz first.
By the way, that new Joker movie is crazy!!!

Duuuude I've so gotta check that movie out