Debating switching from Yamaha to NAD

[Deckard71]

yes, the peak at 600hz looks strange, maybe I used the Natural YPAO of pattern1 instead of pattern2, I cannot check now. I have been tweaking the Natural copied to Manual and I think I got a better curve

1. Natural XO 80hz

2. Manual XO 80 hz (natural ajusted)

Comparison (dark green is the Manual one)

I think I cannot go further with YPAO to improve the EQ. On the other hand, it looks good to me now 8and sounds good)

 

[PENG]

Also I'd recommend redoing YPAO with the YPAO mic in the exact same spot as your REW measuring mic.

Haha, that's what I have been doing too, being ocd..good to know I am not alone.

 

[PENG]

Straight is "source straight" meaning that will out put 2.0 id¡f source is 2.0, but is independant from EQ. But I understood what you meant, and I ran REW using "Through" (no EQ)

So, charts using THROUGH:

1. Through, no Sub (Large)

View attachment 30685

2. Through, XO 80hz

View attachment 30686

3. Through, XO 90hz

View attachment 30687

4. Through, XO 60hz

View attachment 30688

1b NATURAL large (no sub)
View attachment 30689

2b NATURAL, XO 80hz
View attachment 30690

3b NATURAL, XO 90hz
View attachment 30691

4b NATURAL XO 60hz

View attachment 30692


It is difficult with so many charts. I think the best curve is 3B

@sakete yes, UMIK is in the same position as YPAO mic. And yes, the Focal 948 present Mids a bit recessed. I have solved this by rising 315-396 frequencies in YPAO manual

If you limit the limit to 15-200 Hz it will be easier to see the effects. I agreed 3b, ie.90 Hz looked the best, and I predicted it too right? That is, the deep bass of the big 948 messes with your sub, making it challenging for YPAO to integrate. XO 40 Hz will look even worse.

So best to use 90 Hz for surround sound and "No sub" for music, or try it to find out if you like it. As mentioned before, you may missed the peaky bass that YPAO successfully removed.

 

[Deckard71]

If you limit the limit to 15-200 Hz it will be easier to see the effects. I agreed 3b, ie.90 Hz looked the best, and I predicted it too right? That is, the deep bass of the big 948 messes with your sub, making it challenging for YPAO to integrate. XO 40 Hz will look even worse.

So best to use 90 Hz for surround sound and "No sub" for music, or try it to find out if you like it. As mentioned before, you may missed the peaky bass that YPAO successfully removed.

Many thanks. For Movies I will use the Manual EQ posted above. For Music (I listen multichannel DSP) I have to check if it is better to use the same or set them as Large with no sub. Good recomendation!

 

[sakete]

Many thanks. For Movies I will use the Manual EQ posted above. For Music (I listen multichannel DSP) I have to check if it is better to use the same or set them as Large with no sub. Good recomendation!

Remember, always try to fix things in your room and your speaker setup (positioning, crossovers, etc.) before considering getting a different receiver/amp. It's very likely that a different receiver or different room correction software will not make a big difference

And now that you've taken measurements, you can see for yourself what's going on in your room. And overall it's pretty good already. It's not likely that Dirac would create a dramatic improvement.

And sure, in theory you can EQ away all dips, but sometimes that's a +6dB or +10dB boost, which at loud volumes will start introducing distortion as it chips away at any headroom you had left in those frequency ranges.

 

[sakete]

In a few weeks when I have the house to myself, I will start experimenting with adding a +2dB or +3dB boost to the overall lower frequencies as I do want a bit more bass. Sometimes I find the bass too flat, so in that sense I'm a bit like @AcuDefTechGuy

I do like the effect YPAO volume gives at low volumes (essentially the same as Dynamic EQ on Audyssey I believe), where it significantly boosts the low-end to still make the sound somewhat balanced. As most of the time I'm listening at low volume, as we have a sleeping baby in the house

 

[PENG]

@Deckard71 it's weird that in natural full range there's a weird spike in the 600hz range, that disappears when crossovers are enabled.

@PENG could that be some sort of resonant peak?

I doubt that, Focal knows how to make drivers and crossovers to avoid bad resonance. It is most likely room/placement related, that's why I asked him about room dimensions and shape. He said L shape but didn't give dimensions.

If he cannot smooth that off via placement, then he should leave YPAO on and play with EQ. Based on all the graphs we have seen, if he prefers flatter response, he could be a prime candidate for a good REQ (Dirac Live again), or YPAO + lots of manual tweaking. Aria 948 should do a lot smoother than that, so I would say must be a challenging room.

 

[Deckard71]

In a few weeks when I have the house to myself, I will start experimenting with adding a +2dB or +3dB boost to the overall lower frequencies as I do want a bit more bass. Sometimes I find the bass too flat, so in that sense I'm a bit like @AcuDefTechGuy

I do like the effect YPAO volume gives at low volumes (essentially the same as Dynamic EQ on Audyssey I believe), where it significantly boosts the low-end to still make the sound somewhat balanced. As most of the time I'm listening at low volume, as we have a sleeping baby in the house

Remember that you can enable “YPAO Volume” to boost low frequencies at low listening volumes. I have it ON by default, regardless the volume

 

[Deckard71]

I doubt that, Focal knows how to make drivers and crossovers to avoid bad resonance. It is most likely room/placement related, that's why I asked him about room dimensions and shape. He said L shape but didn't give dimensions.

If he cannot smooth that off via placement, then he should leave YPAO on and play with EQ. Based on all the graphs we have seen, if he prefers flatter response, he could be a prime candidate for a good REQ (Dirac Live again), or YPAO + lots of manual tweaking. Aria 948 should do a lot smoother than that, so I would say must be a challenging room.

Forget the peak at 600hz, should be something wrong with the measurement, it is not shown in any other chart

 

[Deckard71]

My room (43m2). Very draft measures:

The black squares are my front speakers. The red circle is the MLP. I have lot of curtains, carpets, cushions, sofa, chairs, frames, etc. I would say it it very sound-friendly

EDIT: on the right should say 7,5M

 

[sakete]

My room (43m2). Very draft measures:

View attachment 30696

The black squares are my front speakers. The red circle is the MLP. I have lot of curtains, carpets, cushions, sofa, chairs, frames, etc. I would say it it very sound-friendly

EDIT: on the right should say 7,5M

Looks like a decently fine room to me. You could try moving the couch forward a touch so it's not too close to the back wall (even moving it 10cm could already make a difference), but there doesn't seem to be a lot of space to do so.

 

[Deckard71]

Thanks. The sofa is already 20cm from the back wall. Also take into account that only 1/3 of the sofa has a wall behind

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In a few weeks when I have the house to myself, I will start experimenting with adding a +2dB or +3dB boost to the overall lower frequencies as I do want a bit more bass. Sometimes I find the bass too flat, so in that sense I'm a bit like @AcuDefTechGuy

No FLAT bass for me. No way, no how.

Bass needs to be like this:

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Comparison (dark green is the Manual one)
View attachment 30695

I think I cannot go further with YPAO to improve the EQ. On the other hand, it looks good to me now 8and sounds good)

The green graph looks pretty good.

 

[Deckard71]

No FLAT bass for me. No way, no how.

Bass needs to be like this:

Yup, I like bass too, a lot, but controlled. And my brain does not conceive to set my speakers, which are monsters with 2 woofers of 8”, as Small

 

[PENG]

My room (43m2). Very draft measures:

View attachment 30696

The black squares are my front speakers. The red circle is the MLP. I have lot of curtains, carpets, cushions, sofa, chairs, frames, etc. I would say it it very sound-friendly

EDIT: on the right should say 7,5M

I asked, because I was going to try and calculate the room resonant modes if it is more or less rectangular. For L-shape, I have no idea how to do it, search for online calculator but found none.

Good thing is, you reported in your post#149 that that peak at around 600 Hz was not shown in any other chart so I guess it's not really a problem. it is strange why it was shown in one particular graph? I highly doubt Focal's mid range driver would have that kind (frequency and magnitude) of resonant so the prime suspect for such peaks would be room mode resonant.

Regardless, I guess the L-shape at least explains partially why your graphs aren't smoother than what I would expect from the excellent Focal Aria speakers.

What is the ceiling height?

 

[Deckard71]

I asked, because I was going to try and calculate the room resonant modes if it is more or less rectangular. For L-shape, I have no idea how to do it, search for online calculator but found none.

Good thing is, you reported in your post#149 that that peak at around 600 Hz was not shown in any other chart so I guess it's not really a problem. it is strange why it was shown in one particular graph? I highly doubt Focal's mid range driver would have that kind (frequency and magnitude) of resonant so the prime suspect for such peaks would be room mode resonant.

Regardless, I guess the L-shape at least explains partially why your graphs aren't smoother than what I would expect from the excellent Focal Aria speakers.

What is the ceiling height?

Ceiling height is around 2.75m. Many thanks for the calculation attempt

I have, and had, many Focal speakers. My previous Chorus 726 were very easy, I never felt the need of EQ. My current Aria 906 (as surround now but I tried them as Front) the same. And the same with 706, cc700 and cc 900

However the 948 are tricky, bass can cover the midrange

So, going back to the OP question, that I also wonder, would a NAD with Dirac (or even an Anthem MRX 720) made a big difference?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

would a NAD with Dirac (or even an Anthem MRX 720) made a big difference?

Fans of NAD and Anthem would say, "Absolutely Yes!"

But there is absolutely NO guarantee.

So people would have to take a chance and TRY it out.

Even if Dirac or ARC could make your speaker's response +/-2dB, instead of +/-3dB, would you HEAR any difference at all?

 

[Deckard71]

Even if Dirac or ARC could make your speaker's response +/-2dB, instead of +/-3dB, would you HEAR any difference at all?

For sure, I would not. But in my charts (and in sakete’s) I see more than 3db differences

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For sure, I would not. But in my charts (and in sakete’s) I see more than 3db differences

I removed the other 2 graphs and focused on just the YPAO Flat Green. The amplitude from 200Hz - 20kHz is less than 6dB. So it looks to be less than +/-3dB.

This one is your Focal: The amplitude from 400Hz-17kHz is no more than 6dB, which is +/-3dB.