Debating switching from Yamaha to NAD

[Deckard71]

Interesting, i have a nad, looking going the other way

Tell us more!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Interesting, i have a nad, looking going the other way

You're not the first or the last either.

People switch from one to another all the time for all kinds of reasons.

 

[PENG]

You're not the first or the last either.

People switch from one to another all the time for all kinds of reasons.

They do that with just about anything, not just audio stuff.

 

[sakete]

They do that with just about anything, not just audio stuff.

My wife sure doesn't like it when I switch to another...

 

[Pogre]

My wife sure doesn't like it when I switch to another...

Women. Go figure, huh?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They do that with just about anything, not just audio stuff.

Yeah, @Phase 2 switches phones all the time.

I used to love Acurus and DefTech.

 

[Pogre]

Yeah, @Phase 2 switches phones all the time.

I used to love Acurus and DefTech.

Highly questionable published specs aside I still think they make some decent sounding speakers. I had a pair of SM55's when I first started posting here and they weren't terrible. I paid 260 for a used pair on ebay and one of them had a blown woofer. Called DefTech and they had me send it in. I paid the shipping but they fixed it free and were really nice about it.

I contacted the vendor with my complaint and she immediately gave me a full refund. By the time I sold them I actually made money! Well, minus the shipping I paid for 1 speaker to be fixed. Still came out ahead by 150 - 200 bucks.

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah, @Phase 2 switches phones all the time.

I used to love Acurus and DefTech.

Did you get rid of all your speakers other than the RBH?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Did you get rid of all your speakers other than the RBH?

Yes. All of the speakers in my house are now RBH.

 

[Deckard71]

Hello

I took some measurements also with my A2070. I think YPAO is doing a good job on the Left speaker, not so sure about the Right one.

1. LEFT THROUGH (no YPAO)

2. LEFT NATURAL

3. Comparison LEFT (1/6 smoothing)

4. RIGHT THROUGH (no YPAO)

5. RIGHT NATURAL

6. Comparison RIGHT (1/6 smoothing)

Any thoughts? Good enough?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hello

I took some measurements also with my A2070. I think YPAO is doing a good job on the Left speaker, not so sure about the Right one.

1. LEFT THROUGH (no YPAO)

View attachment 30678
2. LEFT NATURAL
View attachment 30679
3. Comparison LEFT (1/6 smoothing)
View attachment 30680


4. RIGHT THROUGH (no YPAO)
View attachment 30681

5. RIGHT NATURAL
View attachment 30682

6. Comparison RIGHT (1/6 smoothing)
View attachment 30683

Any thoughts? Good enough?

I think THROUGH is about +/-3dB, NATURAL is about +/-3.5dB from about 380Hz-12kHz.

What speakers do you have?

 

[PENG]

Hello

I took some measurements also with my A2070. I think YPAO is doing a good job on the Left speaker, not so sure about the Right one.

Any thoughts? Good enough?

It would be easier to comment if we have the following info:

- Speaker and subwoofer (if used) models
- Graphs for stereo, both channels playing during the sweep
- Crossover point if subs are used

If YPAO is as good as XT32, it should try and integrate everything in the bass region so that the phase (time domain) are taken into account for good overall balance as most speaker don't listen to one speaker only even in mono. So if your graphs show the right speaker not as good, it could be due to YPAO compromising to improve the overall bass response. Most people don't listen to mono using just one speaker.

Yours certainly don't look as good as sakete's, and someone like @AcuDefTechGuy may not like YPAO on if he's in that room because he doesn't seem to like accurate/flat FR in the low range, so he may prefer yours to sakete.

Looking at the mid and high range, it would appear sakete has much more neutral FR than yours. If I got it right, he has the Revel F206 that has very flat response to begin with, and his room may or may not be as challenging as yours too and that is another big factor.

The FR below for the F206 obviously look smoother than most people's in room response as they were measured in NRC's anechoic chamer.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1238:nrc-measurements-revel-performa3-f206-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

 

[Deckard71]

Thanks guys. My speakers are Focal Aria 948 which deliver plenty of bass

Measurements have been taken with them as Large (no sub x-over) but in real life I set them to small (x-over at 40hz)

So you say I should measure a stereo sweep to see how all is integrated instead of taking individual measurements?

 

[PENG]

Thanks guys. My speakers are Focal Aria 948 which deliver plenty of bass

Measurements have been taken with them as Large (no sub x-over) but in real life I set them to small (x-over at 40hz)

So you say I should measure a stereo sweep to see how all is integrated instead of taking individual measurements?

Yes, would like to see the sweeps for the following:

1. Stereo left+right direct with no YPAO, large, no sub. Straight/Pure direct may take care of that.
2. Stereo left+right small+subwoofer, XO 80 Hz
3. Stereo left+right small+subwoofer, XO 90 Hz
4. Stereo left+right small+subwoofer, XO 60 Hz

The Focal is comparable to the F206, but it likely have deeper bass that will mess around more with the subwoofer so I expect the graph for L+R+Sub will look the best if XO is set to 80 Hz or 90 Hz.

What is the room shape, dimensions?

 

[Deckard71]

Yes, would like to see the sweeps for the following:

1. Stereo left+right direct with no YPAO, large, no sub. Straight/Pure direct may take care of that.
2. Stereo left+right small+subwoofer, XO 80 Hz
3. Stereo left+right small+subwoofer, XO 90 Hz
4. Stereo left+right small+subwoofer, XO 60 Hz

The Focal is comparable to the F206, but it likely have deeper bass that will mess around more with the subwoofer so I expect the graph for L+R+Sub will look the best if XO is set to 80 Hz or 90 Hz.

What is the room shape, dimensions?

2, 3, 4 also in Straight mode, no YPAO?
My room is 43m2, L shape
Thanks

 

[PENG]

2, 3, 4 also in Straight mode, no YPAO?
Thanks

If you are as crazy as I am, for each, you will do it in straight as well as in YPAO so you can compare and see if YPAO is doing an effective job in each scenario. I have probably plotted a hundred or more, including those for all channel driven. To me, the most important one to see are:

- FL+FR+Subwoofer, one with YPAO off, and one with YPAO On for each XO point, i.e. 40, 60, 80, 90, 100 Hz.

That's a lot of work though..

By the way, I have not played with my only Yamaha AVR for a few years so refresh my memory, is straight same as Denon/Marantz direct or pure direct?

For D&M, Audyssey is disabled in direct and pure direct modes.

 

[sakete]

If you are as crazy as I am, for each, you will do it in straight as well as in YPAO so you can compare and see if YPAO is doing an effective job in each scenario. I have probably plotted a hundred or more, including those for all channel driven. To me, the most important one to see are:

- FL+FR+Subwoofer, one with YPAO off, and one with YPAO On for each XO point, i.e. 40, 60, 80, 90, 100 Hz.

That's a lot of work though..

By the way, I have not played with my only Yamaha AVR for a few years so refresh my memory, is straight same as Denon/Marantz direct or pure direct?

For D&M, Audyssey is disabled in direct and pure direct modes.

Straight is not the same as pure direct. Straight just disables all the dsp modes, but any YPAO EQ is still applied. To disable YPAO he'll need to either use pure direct mode, or put PEQ on Through.

If Deckard is using Focal 948, I think those are a bit more V shaped, not as flat as Revel F206. At least when I demoed a Focal and Revel side by side, the mids on the Focal sounded a bit more recessed compared to the Revel.

Deckard, can you take a picture of your setup?

Also I'd recommend redoing YPAO with the YPAO mic in the exact same spot as your REW measuring mic. When I took measurements I first redid YPAO to remove any variables that may have been there from a different day.

 

[Deckard71]

If you are as crazy as I am, for each, you will do it in straight as well as in YPAO so you can compare and see if YPAO is doing an effective job in each scenario.

By the way, I have not played with my only Yamaha AVR for a few years so refresh my memory, is straight same as Denon/Marantz direct or pure direct?

For D&M, Audyssey is disabled in direct and pure direct modes.

Straight is "source straight" meaning that will out put 2.0 id¡f source is 2.0, but is independant from EQ. But I understood what you meant, and I ran REW using "Through" (no EQ)

So, charts using THROUGH:

1. Through, no Sub (Large)

2. Through, XO 80hz

3. Through, XO 90hz

4. Through, XO 60hz

1b NATURAL large (no sub)

2b NATURAL, XO 80hz

3b NATURAL, XO 90hz

4b NATURAL XO 60hz

It is difficult with so many charts. I think the best curve is 3B

@sakete yes, UMIK is in the same position as YPAO mic. And yes, the Focal 948 present Mids a bit recessed. I have solved this by rising 315-396 frequencies in YPAO manual

 

[sakete]

@Deckard71 it's weird that in natural full range there's a weird spike in the 600hz range, that disappears when crossovers are enabled.

@PENG could that be some sort of resonant peak?

 

[Pogre]

@Deckard71 it's weird that in natural full range there's a weird spike in the 600hz range, that disappears when crossovers are enabled.

@PENG could that be some sort of resonant peak?

Could be that your subs are compensating where your speakers could not.