Debating switching from Yamaha to NAD

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sakete

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
31
#1
Recently got a refurbished A2070 through A4L. Debating switching to a refurb NAD T758 v3, mainly for Dirac Live as I have a challenging room and don't really have the ability to do much about positioning and treatments (it's the main living room).

I hear mixed things about NAD reliability. How bad is it really? So far the Yammie has been rock solid.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
955 6 27
#2
In my opinion, NAD is overpriced. You will get more reliability with Yamaha which is reported as showing the best reliability statistics among the popular AVR brands.
 
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sakete

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
31
#3
In my opinion, NAD is overpriced. You will get more reliability with Yamaha which is reported as showing the best reliability statistics among the popular AVR brands.
Yeah, full MSRP it's probably overpriced, but I can get a T758 V3 for $1100 open box (authorized dealer) which seems more reasonable. And I know that Yamaha is reliable, but how unreliable is NAD really?
 
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sakete

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
31
#6
What do you expect from the NAD receiver which the Yamaha doesn't have? For sure, you wouldn't get any noticeable sound improvement by switching.
Mainly Dirac. I know that without any dsps enabled, essentially all receivers sound the same so that's not what I was going for. But Dirac should be a lot better than YPAO, as YPAO is struggling to properly correct the low frequencies in my room (they don't sound linear, at certain frequencies they're still boomy). And I have a challenging room, don't have many options for positioning or treatment (it's the main living room and my wife wouldn't approve).
 
Montucky

Montucky

Full Audioholic
Ratings
198
#7
Dirac's the bees knees. As much of a Yamaha fan as I normally am, I've also always liked NAD products too. I see no harm in giving it a go to see if you like it more.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,707 9 1
#8
Recently got a refurbished A2070 through A4L. Debating switching to a refurb NAD T758 v3, mainly for Dirac Live as I have a challenging room and don't really have the ability to do much about positioning and treatments (it's the main living room).

I hear mixed things about NAD reliability. How bad is it really? So far the Yammie has been rock solid.
Does the A2070 provide you with much more output power than what you need for your speakers in your room? I asked because switching to the T758 v3 will gain you Dirac Live but you may lose a couple dB. That may not be noticeable at all depending on other factors.

https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Imo for a simple and basic 7 channel AVR such as the T758 V3, reliability shouldn't be a concern. Just make sure the unit comes with a good warranty though.
 
S

sakete

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
31
#9
Does the A2070 provide you with much more output power than what you need for your speakers in your room? I asked because switching to the T758 v3 will gain you Dirac Live but you may lose a couple dB. That may not be noticeable at all depending on other factors.

https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Imo for a simple and basic 7 channel AVR such as the T758 V3, reliability shouldn't be a concern. Just make sure the unit comes with a good warranty though.
I probably don't need all the power the A2070 provides, I'm pretty sure in terms of power the T758 would meet my needs. I never listen to music or movies at ear bleeding levels anyway.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Ratings
8,166 23 6
#11
mainly for Dirac Live as I have a challenging room
Keep in mind that even the so-called “best” Room EQ cannot perform miracles on a Room.

So there is absolutely no guarantee.

But it’s always fun to try new things and learn.

So it would be interesting to see the Room Response measurements between the Yamaha and NAD.
 
S

sakete

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
31
#12
Keep in mind that even the so-called “best” Room EQ cannot perform miracles on a Room.

So there is absolutely no guarantee.

But it’s always fun to try new things and learn.

So it would be interesting to see the Room Response measurements between the Yamaha and NAD.
I realize that, and am not expecting it to work any miracles. But by all accounts, it appears that Dirac (or ARC, but between NAD and Anthem, the NAD seems a bit more feature rich except for inputs) is as good as it gets for auto EQ software, with the exception of perhaps Trinnov. It just may help me get a flatter bass response.

I was first planning on trying REW with manual PEQ on the Yammie, but I can only use I think 3 or 4 filters for freqs below 500hz, which I doubt will be enough too smooth out the lower freqs. I can then try to get all kinds of external devices such as minidsp, etc, but I may then as well spend a bit more and have it all in one box :D

Ideally I'd move everything down to the basement and treat that room properly, but it's currently unfinished and the furnace/hvac down there is loud as hell (and it'll probably be years until we do anything about finishing the basement or replacing the furnace).
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,707 9 1
#13
I realize that, and am not expecting it to work any miracles. But by all accounts, it appears that Dirac (or ARC, but between NAD and Anthem, the NAD seems a bit more feature rich except for inputs) is as good as it gets for auto EQ software, with the exception of perhaps Trinnov. It just may help me get a flatter bass response.

I was first planning on trying REW with manual PEQ on the Yammie, but I can only use I think 3 or 4 filters for freqs below 500hz, which I doubt will be enough too smooth out the lower freqs. I can then try to get all kinds of external devices such as minidsp, etc, but I may then as well spend a bit more and have it all in one box :D

Ideally I'd move everything down to the basement and treat that room properly, but it's currently unfinished and the furnace/hvac down there is loud as hell (and it'll probably be years until we do anything about finishing the basement or replacing the furnace).
Most experts, self proclaimed or proven, tend to think REQ on freq above the room transition freq may not be a good idea, perhaps a hit or miss kind of deal.

So if your goal is to apply REQ to the range below say 250 to 300 Hz, Audyssey XT32+Editor App should be able to do as good or better job than AARC (on the MRX platform),and comparable to Dirac Live that imo has been hyped up by some advanced and ex Audyssey users as though they discovered the magic bullet that does not exist, not yet anyway.

If you really like Yamaha's products, you probably should go ahead and try manual PEQ using YPAO and REW to guide you. If you take the time, I bet you can do as good or better job as AARC that is also PEQ based. Obviously there are tons of opinions out there.:D I trust mine a touch more because I do read a lot and understand some of the basic principle of this REQ thing.:D:D just kidding..
 
J

JStewart

Audiophyte
Ratings
4
#14
Been happy with T758v3 for more than a year. Prior to that Yamaha a2030 with Dirac separate, because as you pointed out ypao does little for the critical low frequencies. Switched for a couple of reasons, an all in 1 solution with dirac being one.
Purchased refurb from safe n sound hq before the hardware issues with the am230 card were widely known and addressed. Their customer service and nad’s was excellent. I eventually ended up with a new one shipped from nad.
I don’t use hdmi arc but I read the unit can be a bit glitchy in this regard if that’s a feature you need.
 
S

sakete

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
31
#15
Been happy with T758v3 for more than a year. Prior to that Yamaha a2030 with Dirac separate, because as you pointed out ypao does little for the critical low frequencies. Switched for a couple of reasons, an all in 1 solution with dirac being one.
Purchased refurb from safe n sound hq before the hardware issues with the am230 card were widely known and addressed. Their customer service and nad’s was excellent. I eventually ended up with a new one shipped from nad.
I don’t use hdmi arc but I read the unit can be a bit glitchy in this regard if that’s a feature you need.
Great. So I guess all those issues with the AM230 are resolved now, right? I'm looking at that same retailer for picking up a refurb model. (I'm also debating getting a T777 refurb and to then never look back :p).

How well would you say the NAD is at projecting a center dialog image when not having a physical center channel? For now I only have a 2ch setup and will not be getting a center channel until at least a year from now.
 
Montucky

Montucky

Full Audioholic
Ratings
198
#16
Truth is, sometimes YPAO can be the weak link on the Yamahas. It definitely doesn't seem to work equally across the board as some function abysmally, but I've also been quite happy with how it worked on my CX-A5100. No matter the case, I'd ALWAYS verify the results on each channel with a simple SPL meter.

That all said, there is another solution in case you like the Yamaha's power but just want better room correction. What about tossing in a MiniDSP to the mix?
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series
One of those units paired with their excellent software, you can REALLY get things dialed in. Worth looking into at least.
 
S

sakete

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
31
#17
Truth is, sometimes YPAO can be the weak link on the Yamahas. It definitely doesn't seem to work equally across the board as some function abysmally, but I've also been quite happy with how it worked on my CX-A5100. No matter the case, I'd ALWAYS verify the results on each channel with a simple SPL meter.

That all said, there is another solution in case you like the Yamaha's power but just want better room correction. What about tossing in a MiniDSP to the mix?
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series
One of those units paired with their excellent software, you can REALLY get things dialed in. Worth looking into at least.
I considered the MiniDSP, but it's only useful for subwoofers. It will not allow me to equalize my main front speakers' low-end response (unless of course I buy a separate amp),as I currently do not have a subwoofer and it'll be a while until I have one (it'll be a tough sell for my wife to get a huge subwoofer in the living room). With my current 2ch speakers (Revel F206),the bass response in direct mode is very uneven across the frequency range (some frequencies are very loud, others aren't). With YPAO it improved some, but still not that great (and I can't set a target curve with YPAO anyway).

So that's why I'm looking at either a Dirac based solution since it should be the bees knees, or otherwise Audyssey XT32 as Peng's comment got me thinking. Though I don't like the fact that Denon/Marantz will downsample everything to 48khz when using Audyssey. But I don't know if NAD downsamples the signal for Dirac. I know that Yamaha doesn't downsample anything for YPAO. In the end it probably doesn't really matter, but I'm kind of anal and like knowing that the source signal isn't being resampled :)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,707 9 1
#18
I considered the MiniDSP, but it's only useful for subwoofers. It will not allow me to equalize my main front speakers' low-end response (unless of course I buy a separate amp),as I currently do not have a subwoofer and it'll be a while until I have one (it'll be a tough sell for my wife to get a huge subwoofer in the living room). With my current 2ch speakers (Revel F206),the bass response in direct mode is very uneven across the frequency range (some frequencies are very loud, others aren't). With YPAO it improved some, but still not that great (and I can't set a target curve with YPAO anyway).

So that's why I'm looking at either a Dirac based solution since it should be the bees knees, or otherwise Audyssey XT32 as Peng's comment got me thinking. Though I don't like the fact that Denon/Marantz will downsample everything to 48khz when using Audyssey. But I don't know if NAD downsamples the signal for Dirac. I know that Yamaha doesn't downsample anything for YPAO. In the end it probably doesn't really matter, but I'm kind of anal and like knowing that the source signal isn't being resampled :)
You are right about down sampling to 48 kHz doesn't matter in the end. Such talks by manufacturers are sort of the typical marketing hypes. Think about it, why would it matter? Chris K said down sampling or not was not up to Audyssey, but the manufacturers. D&M choose to do it for good reasons.

Even for a so called purist, it is easy to hit the direct/pure direct button to bypass the dsps, otherwise the signal will get processed including up and down sampling, REQ or not. I don't believe one can tell any difference when watching movies, sound tracks are highly processed audio anyway.
 

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