It's Mueller Time!

[markw]

I've been trying to be a good boy but I couldn't resist this.

'Biden said, “Look at what’s happening with Putin. While Putin is trying to undo our elections, he is undoing elections in Europe. Look at what’s happening in Hungary, look what’s happening in Poland, look what’s happening. You think that would happen on my watch or Barack’s watch? You can’t answer that, but I promise it wouldn’t have, and it didn’t.” '

Uh, joe? I hate to be the one to tell you, but it did. If it didn't, than what was all this mueller poop all about?

You can read the words directly from the horses as,... errr,,, mouth rat cheer.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/07/05/biden-russia-election-interference-wouldnt-have-happened-on-my-watch-and-baracks-watch/?fbclid=IwAR3H1JoqnQEi2btu00yY-YWmdzWlYrAemNvccrNDtke4jdAliFdFtnocxeE



'

 

[KEW]

For anyone who is interested in getting the facts from the Mueller Report, here is a breakdown of the key items Mueller reported.
Some might think PBS is fake news (?),but everything in this video comes from the report so all facts are easily verified (since the report is publicly available)!
The topic switches from "Collusion" to "Obstruction" at 12:15.

 

[Ponzio]

And for a dramatic reading of the report. Just in case, the written word isn't enough for some.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I've been trying to be a good boy but I couldn't resist this.

'Biden said, “Look at what’s happening with Putin. While Putin is trying to undo our elections, he is undoing elections in Europe. Look at what’s happening in Hungary, look what’s happening in Poland, look what’s happening. You think that would happen on my watch or Barack’s watch? You can’t answer that, but I promise it wouldn’t have, and it didn’t.” '

Uh, joe? I hate to be the one to tell you, but it did. If it didn't, than what was all this mueller poop all about?

You can read the words directly from the horses as,... errr,,, mouth rat cheer.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/07/05/biden-russia-election-interference-wouldnt-have-happened-on-my-watch-and-baracks-watch/?fbclid=IwAR3H1JoqnQEi2btu00yY-YWmdzWlYrAemNvccrNDtke4jdAliFdFtnocxeE
'

Biden certainly stepped on his own tongue there. The Obama administration didn’t let it go unaddressed, but they certainly didn’t stop it.

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/21/587614043/fact-check-why-didnt-obama-stop-russia-s-election-interference-in-2016

 

[GO-NAD!]

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-fox-news-us-politics_ca_5d2331b6e4b0f31256874bb5?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

Where has the love gone?

 

[KEW]

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-fox-news-us-politics_ca_5d2331b6e4b0f31256874bb5?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

Where has the love gone?

I wonder to what extent Trump calling out Fox as "fake news" and his resistance to the Census decision made by this conservative majority supreme court might dissuade his base?
At some point it has to start looking like some combination of a spoiled 3rd grader and/or dictator when he starts attacking the institutions which they consider "friendly"!

 

[herbu]

I wonder to what extent Trump calling out Fox as "fake news" and his resistance to the Census decision made by this conservative majority supreme court might dissuade his base?
At some point it has to start looking like some combination of a spoiled 3rd grader and/or dictator when he starts attacking the institutions which they consider "friendly"!

Well, for someone who blindly follows the "party line", I can see how it might look that way. But that's a big part of the problem with our politics today. Don't you appreciate someone who actually thinks for himself and develops his own opinions? I do, and think we need more of it. Sometimes I agree with the president, and sometimes I don't. Anyone who always agrees or always disagrees with anybody must be a sad person, and little help to our progress. But it does explain why people agreed w/ Dems on the illegal immigration crisis, then disagree when Republicans said the same thing.

 

[KEW]

Don't you appreciate someone who actually thinks for himself and develops his own opinions?

Not when it results in tormenting families seeking asylum, but that wasn't him thinking for himself, that was him agreeing with bad advise. I would like to see good judgement and consultation with experienced experts as part of those opinions and decisions when they are decisions being made at the level of president of the US.
Some honor and integrity would be nice as well!

However, when "thinking for himself and developing his own opinions" hinges on denying reality, that should be a problem for anyone!
You do realize that he is denying eye-witness reports of the conditions in these facilities and accusing Fox of "fake news" because they are including that reality in their newscast?

 

[herbu]

Not when it results in tormenting families seeking asylum

Maybe you can help me understand. Trump has been calling the situation a crisis for months. ICE and Border Patrol have been calling it a crisis and begging for help and resources. In spite of the fact that Bee-HO said the same thing, Democrats have derided Trump saying it was just a "manufactured crisis", and instead of providing help and resources have advocated we simply abolish ICE and encouraged people NOT to help them. Now you blame Trump for the situation? Really? And you want to claim the moral high ground? Where was your outrage when democrats passed this tormenting law? That's maybe the single most confounding thing about democrats to normal people. You think you can pick and choose which laws you'll follow and which you won't. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way in civilization. What makes you think YOUR likes/dislikes give you permission to disregard the law? You should be happy 15 million NRA members don't think that way.

And if you think the recent explosion of illegal immigrants is coincidence, you should think again.

 

[KEW]

Maybe you can help me understand. Trump has been calling the situation a crisis for months. ICE and Border Patrol have been calling it a crisis and begging for help and resources. In spite of the fact that Bee-HO said the same thing, Democrats have derided Trump saying it was just a "manufactured crisis", and instead of providing help and resources have advocated we simply abolish ICE and encouraged people NOT to help them. Now you blame Trump for the situation? Really? And you want to claim the moral high ground? Where was your outrage when democrats passed this tormenting law? That's maybe the single most confounding thing about democrats to normal people. You think you can pick and choose which laws you'll follow and which you won't. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way in civilization. What makes you think YOUR likes/dislikes give you permission to disregard the law? You should be happy 15 million NRA members don't think that way.

And if you think the recent explosion of illegal immigrants is coincidence, you should think again.

My problem with Trump on immigration is his lack of compassion! Trump has implemented an enforcement policy that is cruel and beneath humanity by any standard.
I do not claim the moral high-ground! I have done little to nothing, on this count, to claim anything!
Let's check the dictionary:
Moral: concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
So, Trump has gone out of the way to claim the immoral low-ground!

Re-reading your post, I guess you are saying that Trump was a helpless pawn, forced to implement an immoral policy (in an immoral way) against his will. If that is what you wanted from your president, you got it.

Obama took the moral approach and it is so strange, but no one challenged him for it. It is congresses duty to oversee the president. Wonder why no one (Dem or Rep) challenged Obama's negligence? Maybe because they all knew it was the right thing to do. Trump is unique that way!

You think you can pick and choose which laws you'll follow and which you won't. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way in civilization.

So you're one of those jerks driving under the speed limit when everyone else (including the police) are always driving 5-10 mph over the speed limit. I always though those were just old folk with failing vision.
Do a reality check!

 

[Mikado463]

Kurt, the speed limit thing is a really poor comparison, I know you can do better .........

 

[KEW]

Kurt, the speed limit thing is a really poor comparison, I know you can do better .........

I'm sure I can, but that was not my objective.
His statement was absolute in a "black and white" way, and the speed limit is a very common shade of gray that is/has coexisted with our civilization for many decades! As such, it is a very effective example of how wrong he is to consider all laws as absolutes!

 

[herbu]

My problem with Trump on immigration is his lack of compassion! Trump has implemented an enforcement policy that is cruel and beneath humanity by any standard.
I do not claim the moral high-ground! I have done little to nothing, on this count, to claim anything!
Let's check the dictionary:
Moral: concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
So, Trump has gone out of the way to claim the immoral low-ground!

Re-reading your post, I guess you are saying that Trump was a helpless pawn, forced to implement an immoral policy (in an immoral way) against his will. If that is what you wanted from your president, you got it.

Obama took the moral approach and it is so strange, but no one challenged him for it. It is congresses duty to oversee the president. Wonder why no one (Dem or Rep) challenged Obama's negligence? Maybe because they all knew it was the right thing to do. Trump is unique that way!


So you're one of those jerks driving under the speed limit when everyone else (including the police) are always driving 5-10 mph over the speed limit. I always though those were just old folk with failing vision.
Do a reality check!

Wow. You prove my point. Enforcing the law is immoral? Why would you pass a law that you didn't want enforced? And what gives you ANY authority to decide which laws should be enforced and which should not? (Please spare me the speed limit and spitting on the sidewalk herrings.) Isn't that anarchy? You say enforcement of YOUR law is "cruel and beneath humanity"? Then what was passing it in the beginning? See the conundrum? It is why democrats have no credibility as a political party. You seem to have no beliefs other than what your party says is right and what the other party says is beneath humanity.

 

[Mikado463]

I'm sure I can, but that was not my objective.
His statement was absolute in a "black and white" way, and the speed limit is a very common shade of gray that is/has coexisted with our civilization for many decades! As such, it is a very effective example of how wrong he is to consider all laws as absolutes!

no Kurt, if you think and believe are borders are not meant to be protected by LAWS then you are 100% nuts !!

in so far as the compassion BS, that starts after compliance with immigration laws.

 

[KEW]

no Kurt, if you think and believe are borders are not meant to be protected by LAWS then you are 100% nuts !!
in so far as the compassion BS, that starts after compliance with immigration laws.

I agree with you, it would be a horrible idea to remove all law/controls from the border. I have been consistent in targeted separating children from parents. That is my biggest concern and the most offensive display of immorality on the part of Trump (as it effects national policy)!
As for "compassion BS" it is saddening that you see compassion as such nonsense.

 

[pewternhrata]

I agree with you, it would be a horrible idea to remove all law/controls from the border. I have been consistent in targeted separating children from parents. That is my biggest concern and the most offensive display of immorality on the part of Trump (as it effects national policy)!
As for "compassion BS" it is saddening that you see compassion as such nonsense.

Separating children from parents is a mass media headline. The issue arises when children arrive at the border with no identification or proof that those adults are family. In order to protect those children, they are 'taken' from their 'parents' while attempting to identify the child and family. It's nothing new under the current sitting president, just more headlines to ramp up numbers.

 

[KEW]

Wow. You prove my point.

Cool, what point is that?

Enforcing the law is immoral?

If that is rhetorical and you believe that is what I think, you are sorely mistaken. Enforcing the law can be immoral if it is done in an immoral way (like Trump's policy to separate families). Do you really believe the law forced him to do that and he had no other options? He chose to do it because he wanted to!

Why would you pass a law that you didn't want enforced? And what gives you ANY authority to decide which laws should be enforced and which should not? (Please spare me the speed limit and spitting on the sidewalk herrings.)

I'm flattered, but I have never passed a law, and certainly do not believe I have any authority to decide which laws to enforce!

Isn't that anarchy? You say enforcement of YOUR law is "cruel and beneath humanity"? Then what was passing it in the beginning? See the conundrum?

You keep talking like there is some law the democrats made that required separation of families. There was not! That is something Trump chose to do!

You seem to have no beliefs other than what your party says is right and what the other party says is beneath humanity.

Maybe that is part of why you are wrestling with so much! Your arguments seem to think I am a left wing nut job! I disagree with many things that the extreme left is proposing (and some thing the mainstream left is proposing),and there is a boat-load that I have doubts about, but do not know enough of the details to have a valid opinion on.
I do not believe across the board that the Democratic party is right, and if you have been reading my posts there are paces where I say I agree with what Trump is doing, but not how he is doing it! At least one place, I remember applauding him for attending the Pittsburg Synagogue massacre memorial and not speaking or doing anything to draw attention to himself (just being present to show his support/sorrow)!

 

[KEW]

Separating children from parents is a mass media headline. The issue arises when children arrive at the border with no identification or proof that those adults are family. In order to protect those children, they are 'taken' from their 'parents' while attempting to identify the child and family. It's nothing new under the current sitting president, just more headlines to ramp up numbers.

You are right in that some separations were happening under the Bush and Obama administrations. But if you were to get numbers, it was a very small percentage of the total number of families.
In April of 2018, Jeff Sessions publicly announced the introduction of a "Zero Tolerance Policy" which insured that (almost?) every family would be separated. This was a formal policy change in how the rules would be enforced. Aside from simply being unnecessarily cruel, it has burdened the detention centers beyond capacity and resources.

 

[pewternhrata]

You are right in that some separations were happening under the Bush and Obama administrations. But if you were to get numbers, it was a very small percentage of the total number of families.
In April of 2018, Jeff Sessions publicly announced the introduction of a "Zero Tolerance Policy" which insured that (almost?) every family would be separated. This was a formal policy change in how the rules would be enforced. Aside from simply being unnecessarily cruel, it has burdened the detention centers beyond capacity and resources.

Not to steer this thread off course, but also look into the rise of child trafficking in the past few years, it will most likely shed some better insight into the more 'aggressive' approach

 

[herbu]

Cool, what point is that?


If that is rhetorical and you believe that is what I think, you are sorely mistaken. Enforcing the law can be immoral if it is done in an immoral way (like Trump's policy to separate families). Do you really believe the law forced him to do that and he had no other options? He chose to do it because he wanted to!


I'm flattered, but I have never passed a law, and certainly do not believe I have any authority to decide which laws to enforce!


You keep talking like there is some law the democrats made that required separation of families. There was not! That is something Trump chose to do!


Maybe that is part of why you are wrestling with so much! Your arguments seem to think I am a left wing nut job! I disagree with many things that the extreme left is proposing (and some thing the mainstream left is proposing),and there is a boat-load that I have doubts about, but do not know enough of the details to have a valid opinion on.
I do not believe across the board that the Democratic party is right, and if you have been reading my posts there are paces where I say I agree with what Trump is doing, but not how he is doing it! At least one place, I remember applauding him for attending the Pittsburg Synagogue massacre memorial and not speaking or doing anything to draw attention to himself (just being present to show his support/sorrow)!

Kurt, "Trump's policy to separate families"? Sorry, brother, but somebody slipped you the Kool Aid. You think he made up that part himself? No, he didn't. If you're interested, I suggest you look beyond what the Left tells you.

I know "you" have never passed a law, but "you liberals" have, and "you liberals" seem to think it is your right to chose which laws to follow. When I say "You", I often mean "you liberals". You know that.