3 way “bookshelf “ speakers

ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Ryan, you are one lucky dude to be getting the last “new” pair of Phil 3s. There are going to a collectors item soon. I’m glad you were able to get everything worked out & can’t wait to see those pics!
Kinda bittersweet. I'm very grateful that I will get to experience these in my home, hopefully for a long while to come. :)
Regardless, one of the last pairs, it would seem. I think Dennis has a pair waiting on his return home to finish. I've been curious to know how many other orders were in Jim's house. (Phil 3s or custom BMRs.) There was a nice photo on that other forum someone posted of their BMR Towers which Jim built. Same cabinet volume utilizing a "false tower" format. I would love to see a BMR tower with two woofers, myself (though I don't know if the tweeter and mid could keep up with that extra output down low... just think it would look rad! :p (Though maybe, switch over to the 70-20XR Raal in an MTM combination with the Tectonic BMR Mids over two 7" Revelators... Hmmmm... *scratches chin thoughtfully.... HA!)

Yup, seems I've got the DIY bug pretty bad!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
This is why I want to learn DIY... I'll never be able to afford an upgrade to the Phil 3...
But I will learn to build it!
:cool:
My question is once you have the response shape that you want and enough dynamic range to make you happy, what else is there? How do you appreciably upgrade upon that?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Way to true, amigo. ;)
My first subwoofer build is looking at a TL with Scan Speak 32W/4878T00. Only ~12", but in my little room, more than enough... especially if I can do a double driver. But I want to have the practical experience with TLs sooner than later. (Deep end, much? Yes.)
Anyway... its all just a thought process now. Maybe Ported 4 way towers with SBAcoustics drivers. We'll see. :p
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Way to true, amigo. ;)
My first subwoofer build is looking at a TL with Scan Speak 32W/4878T00. Only ~12", but in my little room, more than enough... especially if I can do a double driver. But I want to have the practical experience with TLs sooner than later. (Deep end, much? Yes.)
Anyway... its all just a thought process now. Maybe Ported 4 way towers with SBAcoustics drivers. We'll see. :p
I think these types of designs are incredibly ambitious for a novice speaker builder. I think you should start off with a simple two-way bookshelf speaker and go from there.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I think these types of designs are incredibly ambitious for a novice speaker builder. I think you should start off with a simple two-way bookshelf speaker and go from there.
Just laughing! ;)
Though there is truth in my plans, I'm not that silly! (Don't get me wrong... I AM silly, but that is just... well, silly.) :p
If it works out that Dennis and I can get together on his designs, my first thought is in building a new pair of AAs... and if possible building the new pair, and modifying my old-school Dayton Tweeter AAs to the AA+ models with the Morel Tweeters. That's the lower hanging fruit! (Those would be my Atmos speakers.)
Next up might be modifying my Selaed Mini-Phils. I would like to build new cabs and do New-Phils (ported with the 5.5" Scan Speak Revelator Driver).
So that will give me 1-2 builds using pre-made cabinets in the Dayton BR-1, and possibly 1 build with a cab I do from scratch. With a little luck, that will put me at mid-late summer, and time to look at a Sub. The cats that might help me with the modeling of a TL, I will not rush. regardless, I have two great X-13s that are behaving quite admirably. So how will I make them better? Only time will tell.
But I know drafting, and I have the rudimentary woodworking skills to allow me to do a solid cab. I know how to Solder. So its turning the diagram into a working XO layout and connecting everything properly... and learning how to finish a cabinet.
This is gonna be fun.
:cool:
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
… But I know drafting, and I have the rudimentary woodworking skills to allow me to do a solid cab.
If your woodworking experience is anything like mine, making solid cabinets will be difficult to teach yourself. It was worthwhile for me to pay for beginner's woodworking lessons. Or, find someone who is willing to teach you.
I know how to Solder. So its turning the diagram into a working XO layout and connecting everything properly.
I found this was easier than building cabinets. There can be many correct ways to do this. For illustrated examples of how I went from schematics to built crossover boards, see one of the attached PDFs on this link. I think it might be Part 2. These PDF documented a build I did of Dennis's MB27 speakers. I started with pre-made cabinets from Parts Express, but built the crossover boards from schematics.
... and learning how to finish a cabinet.
What I said above about woodworking skills goes triple for finishing. Most woodworking errors are invisible. But every finishing slip up will always be visible. See Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner for everything I know on the subject.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Hi Swerd! Hope all is well!
I bought the flexner book at your recommendation a couple months back. It’s coming up next on my reading list. Been brushing up on joinery recently, too. My first build will be my equipment rack! Hoping to start next month. (A base frame on cones, and a ‘floating’ rack on vibration pads set inside that base frame. Gonna finish with veneer to practice my dying.)
But I really do get it. This isn’t light stuff. Pun intended. :)
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
This is why I want to learn DIY... I'll never be able to afford an upgrade to the Phil 3...
But I will learn to build it!
:cool:
Come on... you know you want this...

tcdTL.png


I was surfing yesterday and found a reddit thread in which a guy took in-room measurements of his TCD-110S for troubleshooting purposes. That's some mean bass for a tower that's only 130 pounds. T&A's advertised 22Hz wasn't wishful thinking. :eek:

 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Maybe it's coaxial.
110front.png

It's a recessed dome in a constant directivity housing. The off axis dispersion is great, but actually too good for my small room and I have them toed out about 10 degrees. Way too much presence otherwise; not bad sound, but it just wasn't right. Our next house won't come soon enough, let me tell you. F these small rooms.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Nice, @Kvn_Walker . Nice. Based on everything I read so far, the line geometry seems a little weird... too narrow of a cross section perhaps, but maybe the length makes up for it(?). I’m guessing this may fit into the mass-loaded category a bit. Regardless, the proof is s in the pudding, and their lab test is pretty tight.
 

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