I'm so angry with the U.S. and Chinese governments right now!

[lovinthehd]

What would you prefer?

I dunno, maybe something that's more exclusive than simply "American" since we tend to want to isolate ourselves from the other 700 million or so that live on continents with "America" in the name.

 

[highfigh]

I dunno, maybe something that's more exclusive than simply "American" since we tend to want to isolate ourselves from the other 700 million or so that live on continents with "America" in the name.

You would need to go back about 500 years to tell them they were wrong in naming the new land 'America' and that the US will be something that exists in the future.

 

[highfigh]

Big Dees Place.

But POTUS is only temporary.

How about 'OZ'?

 

[highfigh]

Sorry, even Mexicans are Americans. They're in North America.....then there's Central America and South America. That's a lot of Americans! Those in the US don't own "American" any more than Amerigo (Americus) Vespucci's name should have anything to do with it in the first place

Living on a continent doesn't make them citizens of a particular country- if that were the case, any European could call themselves a citizen of any country that fits the description of 'European'.

 

[lovinthehd]

Living on a continent doesn't make them citizens of a particular country- if that were the case, any European could call themselves a citizen of any country that fits the description of 'European'.

Well that was sort of the idea behind the EU. Nationalism is so limiting.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Well that was sort of the idea behind the EU. Nationalism is so limiting.

The EU started out as an extension of the EEC trade agreement, which sprung from various coal and steel agreements after WWII. Under French and German co-sponsorship, it took on a form of supra nationalism, but that was really for currency, the free movement of people, synchronization of member states' legal frameworks.

Are we there yet in North America (or the Americas)? Judging by the current rate of political and economic cohesion in the region, we might get there in the year 5000.

 

[lovinthehd]

The EU started out as an extension of the EEC trade agreement, which sprung from various coal and steel agreements after WWII. Under French and German co-sponsorship, it took on a form of supra nationalism, but that was really for currency, the free movement of people, synchronization of member states' legal frameworks.

Are we there yet in North America (or the Americas)? Judging by the current rate of political and economic cohesion in the region, we might get there in the year 5000.

Don't forget the influence of the Brussels Tariff Nomenclature in all this to supply some trade lube.

 

[highfigh]

Well that was sort of the idea behind the EU. Nationalism is so limiting.

But it also allows preventing someone else telling you what you can do and who can come & go in your own country. I'm not saying the border needs to be closed, but look at what's happening in the EU- Greece is a huge load on everyone (they have received about 310 Euro over ten years and as of 2017, had over 365 Euro in debt). How would you deal with the refugees? You can't just use AOC's logic of "Just pay for it" because the money has to come from somewhere and forcing people to pay for something they get no benefit from isn't going to win any fans for the concept.

 

[highfigh]

Well that was sort of the idea behind the EU. Nationalism is so limiting.

Let's just let everyone into the US. Let me know how that works out. I'll be somewhere else.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Don't forget the influence of the Brussels Tariff Nomenclature in all this to supply some trade lube.

LOL. Like Champagne, Parma Ham, Parmesan Cheese, etc? Stupid regional protectionism, if you ask me.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Let's just let everyone into the US. Let me know how that works out. I'll be somewhere else.

LOL. Me too. Want to go halfseys on a sea container leaving LALB?

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL. Like Champagne, Parma Ham, Parmesan Cheese, etc? Stupid regional protectionism, if you ask me.

No, it's a numerical classification system for tariffs used by many countries now.

LOL. Me too. Want to go halfseys on a sea container leaving LALB?

Altho am retired from the industry, still have friends who can arrange it....just be sure to bring supplies for a month or two.

 

[kystorm]

There is much wrong here, have a good time with it all.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Take all the trauma, drama, comments
The guilt and doubt and shame
The what if's and if only's
The shackles and the chains
The violence and aggression
The pettiness and scorn
The jealousy and hatred
The tempest and discord
And give it up

 

[Hetfield]

Take all the trauma, drama, comments
The guilt and doubt and shame
The what if's and if only's
The shackles and the chains
The violence and aggression
The pettiness and scorn
The jealousy and hatred
The tempest and discord
And give it up

Brilliant post thanks for clearing up everything.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[GO-NAD!]

But it also allows preventing someone else telling you what you can do and who can come & go in your own country. I'm not saying the border needs to be closed, but look at what's happening in the EU- Greece is a huge load on everyone (they have received about 310 Euro over ten years and as of 2017, had over 365 Euro in debt). How would you deal with the refugees? You can't just use AOC's logic of "Just pay for it" because the money has to come from somewhere and forcing people to pay for something they get no benefit from isn't going to win any fans for the concept.

I think they figured it was better than going to war with each other every few years. Has the EU imposed a lot of tiresome bureaucracy? Sure, but it's probably been a net benefit to its members. What happens to the UK after Brexit is finalised will be telling.

Portugal, Italy, Greece & Spain (The "PIGS") have certainly been a drain on EU coffers, but one benefit to countries like Germany is that PIGS depress the Euro, making German exports artificially cheaper. I don't know if it cancels out the subsidies to the PIGS, but it's not insignificant.

I'm not sure AOC's logic is any worse than the current administration's logic of "Just don't pay it" with the tax cuts for the wealthy that have increased the national deficit/debt. She may be talking pie-in-the-sky aspirations, but it may be just a strategy of asking for more than you expect to get. You could certainly use a universal health care system, but I'm not sure free tuition for all is a great idea. I don't think students should be saddled with crippling debts, but they should have at least some skin in the game, since they are the main beneficiaries of their educations.

 

[highfigh]

I think they figured it was better than going to war with each other every few years. Has the EU imposed a lot of tiresome bureaucracy? Sure, but it's probably been a net benefit to its members. What happens to the UK after Brexit is finalised will be telling.

Portugal, Italy, Greece & Spain (The "PIGS") have certainly been a drain on EU coffers, but one benefit to countries like Germany is that PIGS depress the Euro, making German exports artificially cheaper. I don't know if it cancels out the subsidies to the PIGS, but it's not insignificant.

I'm not sure AOC's logic is any worse than the current administration's logic of "Just don't pay it" with the tax cuts for the wealthy that have increased the national deficit/debt. She may be talking pie-in-the-sky aspirations, but it may be just a strategy of asking for more than you expect to get. You could certainly use a universal health care system, but I'm not sure free tuition for all is a great idea. I don't think students should be saddled with crippling debts, but they should have at least some skin in the game, since they are the main beneficiaries of their educations.

Her ideas can't work- the cost would be impossibly high. It would also be impossible to move that far, in ten years and some are just ridiculous- eliminate air travel?

If you look at WHY student debt has increased so much, it's because colleges and universities have been allowed to increase tuition and other costs so much, partially because state and federal funding has decreased but they just don't seem to understand that when income drops, they need to cut some costs, not keep raising prices to their 'customers'. People blithely signed on the line without really 'seeing' the cost, thinking they would be able to get a job in the area where they studied, but too many studied something which there's little to no market for their degree and they weren't flexible in the kind of work they would do. I think student councilors need to give the hard facts- look at the current job market, look at the trends and find something that would get a job in multiple positions. No offense to anyone, but Women's or LGBTQ Studies aren't going to be versatile degrees when the market needs mathematicians, engineer's, accountants, etc.

The biggest problem that occurs when people are given everything- they stop trying, after a while. They have no incentive to do better, try harder, come up with something new. They stop working for what they need and want. It's part of human nature, regardless of what we want to believe.

She wants to increase the top tax rate for the top earners to 70%- in ten years, that would only cause an increase in $2Trillion, which doesn't work if her plan would cost over $50T, as some estimates show.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Her ideas can't work- the cost would be impossibly high. It would also be impossible to move that far, in ten years and some are just ridiculous- eliminate air travel?

If you look at WHY student debt has increased so much, it's because colleges and universities have been allowed to increase tuition and other costs so much, partially because state and federal funding has decreased but they just don't seem to understand that when income drops, they need to cut some costs, not keep raising prices to their 'customers'. People blithely signed on the line without really 'seeing' the cost, thinking they would be able to get a job in the area where they studied, but too many studied something which there's little to no market for their degree and they weren't flexible in the kind of work they would do. I think student councilors need to give the hard facts- look at the current job market, look at the trends and find something that would get a job in multiple positions. No offense to anyone, but Women's or LGBTQ Studies aren't going to be versatile degrees when the market needs mathematicians, engineer's, accountants, etc.

The biggest problem that occurs when people are given everything- they stop trying, after a while. They have no incentive to do better, try harder, come up with something new. They stop working for what they need and want. It's part of human nature, regardless of what we want to believe.

She wants to increase the top tax rate for the top earners to 70%- in ten years, that would only cause an increase in $2Trillion, which doesn't work if her plan would cost over $50T, as some estimates show.

I won't argue that, in its entirety, her proposals are do-able. Some certainly are, though. A universal health care system will cost far less than the current system. As for "eliminating" air travel, that's not part of the plan. The plan (From GND FAQ) is to “build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary.” I don't think that involves building a rail bridge to Hawaii; it's just to make air travel redundant in areas where it's practical. Is that do-able? I couldn't say, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. I'm not saying that I'm a fan of hers - I'm a centrist at heart and she's a bit further left than I'm comfortable with. I will say however, that I wouldn't dismiss the entire package, just because some of it looks a bit fanciful.

The way you describe student debt is precisely what's happening up here, as well.

 

[highfigh]

I won't argue that, in its entirety, her proposals are do-able. Some certainly are, though. A universal health care system will cost far less than the current system. As for "eliminating" air travel, that's not part of the plan. The plan (From GND FAQ) is to “build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary.” I don't think that involves building a rail bridge to Hawaii; it's just to make air travel redundant in areas where it's practical. Is that do-able? I couldn't say, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. I'm not saying that I'm a fan of hers - I'm a centrist at heart and she's a bit further left than I'm comfortable with. I will say however, that I wouldn't dismiss the entire package, just because some of it looks a bit fanciful.

The way you describe student debt is precisely what's happening up here, as well.

Did she perfect time travel? That's the only way rail will replace air travel over long distances. I went to Chicago when I hit 50, because my cousin, her mom & husband were there to see her son and I took the train partially because I didn't want to deal with traffic and parking. Round trip cost about $40 from Milwaukee and I couldn't do it for less if I drove or flew ,even considering taxi fares. Cross country, I would only do rail if I had a lot of time for the trip and in order to build a high speed rail system, it would be difficult, considering everything that as already been built. If we were starting from scratch, I would absolutely want high speed but the operational costs still need to be considered- it may be faster, but if it's more expensive to operate, it's going to lose customers.

MKE has a new trolley system that was installed because the Mayor has a big stiffy about it- it's never going to succeed and even before it was finished, he started talking about expansion. One of the first things that happened when they started digging to lay the track- they found old tracks that were covered in the '60s, when they abandoned the last trolley system. This is Wisconsin and they went from rails to rubber tires in the '50s when they had problems with traffic, ice buildup, etc. Then, a crane took out some power wires, the rails waiting to be installed occupied traffic lanes that were needed, people on bikes and motorcycles got their tires stuck in the rails, and the cost seemed too high to make it work, so the local casino fired up for as year worth of free passes. Now, they're talking about higher than expected ridership- I don't know what they expected, IT'S FREE! Of course they'll have more riders!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Did she perfect time travel? That's the only way rail will replace air travel over long distances. I went to Chicago when I hit 50, because my cousin, her mom & husband were there to see her son and I took the train partially because I didn't want to deal with traffic and parking. Round trip cost about $40 from Milwaukee and I couldn't do it for less if I drove or flew ,even considering taxi fares. Cross country, I would only do rail if I had a lot of time for the trip and in order to build a high speed rail system, it would be difficult, considering everything that as already been built. If we were starting from scratch, I would absolutely want high speed but the operational costs still need to be considered- it may be faster, but if it's more expensive to operate, it's going to lose customers.

MKE has a new trolley system that was installed because the Mayor has a big stiffy about it- it's never going to succeed and even before it was finished, he started talking about expansion. One of the first things that happened when they started digging to lay the track- they found old tracks that were covered in the '60s, when they abandoned the last trolley system. This is Wisconsin and they went from rails to rubber tires in the '50s when they had problems with traffic, ice buildup, etc. Then, a crane took out some power wires, the rails waiting to be installed occupied traffic lanes that were needed, people on bikes and motorcycles got their tires stuck in the rails, and the cost seemed too high to make it work, so the local casino fired up for as year worth of free passes. Now, they're talking about higher than expected ridership- I don't know what they expected, IT'S FREE! Of course they'll have more riders!

Sure, high speed rail would be uber expensive to implement country-wide, perhaps to the point that it's a non-starter.

Coincidentally, I read this article today about the first New Deal.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/surprising-truth-about-roosevelts-new-deal/584209/

Many infrastructure schemes were fostered by the New Deal that had been considered impossibly expensive beforehand. Would high speed one such idea? Who knows? But I wouldn't automatically pan ideas as a knee jerk reaction.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Sure, high speed rail would be uber expensive to implement country-wide, perhaps to the point that it's a non-starter.

Coincidentally, I read this article today about the first New Deal.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/surprising-truth-about-roosevelts-new-deal/584209/

Many infrastructure schemes were fostered by the New Deal that had been considered impossibly expensive beforehand. Would high speed one such idea? Who knows? But I wouldn't automatically pan ideas as a knee jerk reaction.

Keep in mind that the New Deal happened near the end of brutal depression. By brutal, I don't mean people lost their jobs. I mean people lost everything, including their lives from malnourishment, etc.

Large New Deal projects were accomplished by men's camps in which hard work was exchanged for food, a place to sleep, and low wages. It helped end the depression, but it was at a cost unlike what today's market and laws would tolerate.