Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

[NorCalRP]

What does that even mean?

Audioholic + Ignoramus

 

[Andrein]

What? You guys get 5 YR warranty on NAD, Yamaha, and DM in Europe? What's up with that?

Don't tell me you get 3 YR warranty on Sony ES in Europe?

I didn't realize that Anthem isn't a big name in Europe. So I guess over there, DM and Yamaha are actually bigger name brands than Anthem?

In UK at least I think Yamaha is #1 avr. Then DM and Anthem. I think Anthem is perceived as higher end but more like niche product. At least this is my understanding from speaking to dealers and looking at the market.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In UK at least I think Yamaha is #1 avr. Then DM and Anthem. I think Anthem is perceived as higher end but more like niche product. At least this is my understanding from speaking to dealers and looking at the market.

I think "Niche" and "High-end" go hand in hand.

I think If a company makes mainly amps, preamps, integrated amps, and pre-pros, especially at prices above $5,000, they are considered high-end and niche.

But if a company (like Yamaha) is associated with making motorcycles, dirt bikes, boats, grand pianos and keyboards, violins and other musical instruments, and AVRs, then they are not niche and high-end.

Fortunately for Yamaha, they also make amps (XVM-8280 is $3400), integrated amps (S3000 is $7,000), preamps, and pre-pros (A5200 is $2,700), which are associated with high-end audio, but not high-end enough because Yamaha is associated with making way too many other products.

I mean how can an audio company be considered "high-end" if they are associated with motorcycles, dirt bikes, and scooters?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sony is associated with high-end Video - TVs and Projectors.

But because they have not made a pre-pro and amp in about 20 years, they are not associated with high-end audio.

I mean how can a company that makes only AVRs be considered high-end?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon has made high-end integrated amps (like the $8K MSRP Yamaha S-3000 Integrated). And Denon has made some expensive amps and pre-pros in the past.

But for the most part, like Sony, Denon only makes AVRs. So again, how can a company be considered high-end if they only make AVRs?

Marantz is considered high-end because they have expensive Pre-pro, Amps, Integrated Amps every year.

But because Marantz is associated with Denon and also sells some affordable AVRs, Marantz is not quite high-end like Anthem.

So "high-end" is about making fewer products that cost a lot and unassociated with other brands that are not considered high-end.

 

[PENG]

Denon has made high-end integrated amps (like the $8K MSRP Yamaha S-3000 Integrated). And Denon has made some expensive amps and pre-pros in the past.

But for the most part, like Sony, Denon only makes AVRs. So again, how can a company be considered high-end if they only make AVRs?

Marantz is considered high-end because they have expensive Pre-pro, Amps, Integrated Amps every year.

But because Marantz is associated with Denon and also sells some affordable AVRs, Marantz is not quite high-end like Anthem.

So "high-end" is about making fewer products that cost a lot and unassociated with other brands that are not considered high-end.

Interesting definition, just a few points.

Sony does not seem to be making $5000 integrated amps, but their $2000 one gets you only 80 WPC, that's higher end than Yamaha's on $/W basis. And how about their $2200 headphone amp, the TA-ZH1ES?

As you mentioned Denon still makes high end integrated, but they only compete in the Asia, and may be a small part of Europe, outside of Japan. Now that they are under the same umbrella as Marantz and others, that's not going to change any time soon.

Yamaha makes all sorts of musical instrument, even grand pianos, so they should have no trouble setting goals for their "high end" audio gear.

 

[lovinthehd]

Standby in most receivers/amps takes very little wattage. The only receiver that I know of that takes 35 watts with HDMI passthru turned on and receiver off is Sony. Sadly, most tv speakers (not all) are lousy.

These days perhaps, but wasn't that unusual a few years ago for avrs from various mfrs to use more power in the hdmi/network standby modes, assume it's not particularly voluntarily reduced but rather for energy use rules/ratings. All Sony models are like this? Or just one you have looked into?

 

[lovinthehd]

Audioholic + Ignoramus

Really? You, who can't figure out a whole lot of stuff, is calling me an ignoramus? Seriously?

ps dumb comment on my part, read his post wrong initially then didn't double check before opening mouth.

 

[NorCalRP]

Really? You, who can't figure out a whole lot of stuff, is calling me an ignoramus? Seriously?

Oh not at all, my man! I was referring to myself!! You've provided me with your knowledge more than once, and I appreciate it! It was meant as a self deprecating bit of humor- I apparently fell short of the mark and will try to be more impeccable with my word

As an aside... I do not doubt my ability to figure things out on my own; rather, working 14 hours a day, and father to an 18 month old, I find anectodal knowledge to be a more efficient, as well as entertaining, manner of collecting information. The amount of vitriol I've witnessed in general on forums makes me wonder if this perhaps is not the arena within which I ought to be seeking this knowledge and wisdom.

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh not at all, my man! I was referring to myself!! You've provided me with your knowledge more than once, and I appreciate it! It was meant as a self deprecating bit of humor- I apparently fell short of the mark and will try to be more impeccable with my word

As an aside... I do not doubt my ability to figure things out on my own; rather, working 14 hours a day, and father to an 18 month old, I find anectodal knowledge to be a more efficient, as well as entertaining, manner of collecting information. The amount of vitriol I've witnessed in general on forums makes me wonder if this perhaps is not the arena within which I ought to be seeking this knowledge and wisdom.

My response was pre-coffee I read it a bit differently now, but since you quoted me, thought you were talking about me....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A lot of people ask for advice when choosing AVRs.

A lot of recommendations have been for the Denon X3000/4000 series because of the big sale prices and Audyssey XT32.

But before we can make the recommendation, we have to ask them, "What is the salient factor?"

Is it Reliability? Is owning an AVR that has the best chance of lasting 20 years the salient factor to you?

If reliability is the salient factor, then Yamaha is the answer, according to the repair data that @M Code sees.

If US warranty is the salient factor, then Sony ES is the answer because Sony is the only brand in the USA that offers a 5YR warranty on their ES AVR's.

If cost is the salient factor, then Denon is usually the answer because Denon usually offers more sales than any brand I know. For 7.2Ch Dolby ATMOS AVRs, right now the Yamaha RX-A1070 is $839 on Amazon. The Denon X3400 is $599 on Amazon. The Sony ES1100 is $900. The Anthem MRX720 is $2,500.

If room EQ is the salient factor, then it gets 200% grayer because the opinions vary so much.

Some people (myself, @TLS Guy, and some others) don't think any room EQ should be used at all. Some have used or heard Anthem's ARC REQ (and other REQ's) and didn't like the results.

Others feel that certain room EQ's are great.

 

[Paul DS]

These days perhaps, but wasn't that unusual a few years ago for avrs from various mfrs to use more power in the hdmi/network standby modes, assume it's not particularly voluntarily reduced but rather for energy use rules/ratings. All Sony models are like this? Or just one you have looked into?

Yes, as far as I know all Sony receivers suck up about 35 watts in the standby mode (with passthru on). My older STRDN1040 did, and I recently had a STRDN1080 that also used up 35 watts in standby. (I had to return the STRDN1080 because it had other problems). I am currently using a Denon AVRX4400H which uses very little power in standby passthru mode.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, as far as I know all Sony receivers suck up about 35 watts in the standby mode (with passthru on). My older STRDN1040 did, and I recently had a STRDN1080 that also used up 35 watts in standby. (I had to return the STRDN1080 because it had other problems). I am currently using a Denon AVRX4400H which uses very little power in standby passthru mode.

I remember reading one of my avrs is bad about it, but the manuals on two of them just aren't helpful...could be both of them, they're the older ones. My Denon 4520 apparently only uses 5.1 w in the greediest standby (network). The only thing I found network standby useful for was when I used a phone app for remote.

 

[cameron paterson]

How would this work for 5.2.4?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4400/Denon-AVR-X4400H-IN-Command.html

 

[everettT]

How would this work for 5.2.4?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4400/Denon-AVR-X4400H-IN-Command.html

As good as it was in the other thread.... great bang for the buck for sure, I'd check Amazon and others as it should hit $799 now.

 

[cameron paterson]

Do you mean $799 for black Friday? If so that sucks because I wont have the cash until january

 

[bikemig]

Wow, I read this thread trying to get some idea of which avr to buy and well I still don't know which brand to buy, .

 

[everettT]

Do you mean $799 for black Friday? If so that sucks because I wont have the cash until january

Refurb maybe, cause by January it will be the x4500 and more money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow, I read this thread trying to get some idea of which avr to buy and well I still don't know which brand to buy, .

If you’re buying from Amazon or Crutchfield, the Denon X4400 is on sale for $900.

The Yamaha RX-A2070 is on sale for $1150.

So the difference is $250.

1. If Room EQ is a must, then get Denon. If not then go to #2.
2. If lower Price ($250 less) is salient, then get Denon. If not then go to #3.
3. If Reliability and HDMI Compatibility is salient, then get Yamaha.

In Direct or "STRAIGHT" modes (bypassing EQ),the Denon and Yamaha are equal in sound quality.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Will a AVRX4400 power my BMRs + center + surrounds to 75dbs? I’m using a RX A3080 now with 140 watts.

Only if you don’t use ALL Channels Driven like 9CH Stereo Mode.

Use DSU or DTS Neural:X instead of 9CH Stereo Mode.