Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

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bikemig

Audioholic Chief
If you’re buying from Amazon or Crutchfield, the Denon X4400 is on sale for $900.

The Yamaha RX-A2070 is on sale for $1150.

So the difference is $250.

1. If Room EQ is a must, then get Denon. If not then go to #2.
2. If lower Price ($250 less) is salient, then get Denon. If not then go to #3.
3. If Reliability and HDMI Compatibility is salient, then get Yamaha.

In Direct or "STRAIGHT" modes (bypassing EQ),the Denon and Yamaha are equal in sound quality.
Yeah I'm leaning towards a Yamaha but probably one that is less expensive than the RX A 2070
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah I'm leaning towards a Yamaha but probably one that is less expensive than the RX A 2070
The Yamaha RX-A1070 (ATMOS 5.1.2) is $849 brand new on Amazon.

Many guys here on AH will say that for Yamaha, the 1000-series is the “minimum” they’ll recommend for more “serious” HT because the lower models aren’t so robust in the amp and preamp power sections.

Otherwise, the RX-A870 is on sale for $579 on Amazon if your need is less than “serious” HT. :D
 
B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
The Yamaha RX-A1070 (ATMOS 5.1.2) is $849 brand new on Amazon.

Many guys here on AH will say that for Yamaha, the 1000-series is the “minimum” they’ll recommend for more “serious” HT because the lower models aren’t so robust in the amp and preamp power sections.

Otherwise, the RX-A870 is on sale for $579 on Amazon if your need is less than “serious” HT. :D
I'm thinking about the RX A 1070 actually. It's at $599 from accessories4less. It's a little weird as it runs $599 for the Black Friday sale but it is also available today at the same price, :).

I'm running a 2.1 system so the R N 803 stereo receiver ($499) ticks a lot of boxes for me but I'd end up using my TV as an HDMI switcher. I don't have a lot of inputs so that can work (blu ray, cable box, streamer).

I figure for an extra $100 I'll save myself some headaches down the road so I'll likely get the RX A 1070.

Everything else being equal, I want a yamaha system as I like Music cast. I'm using that now in my main 2 channel stereo rig. It works well. The downside is that DLNA is so so (iTunes is much better at organizing your music) and its support for music streaming services is not robust (no native support for Amazon music) . You can get around some of those problems by relying on bluetooth (it does not do apt x but it does aac if you have an IOS device),airplay (but not airplay 2, not a problem though if you use a PC as a source),or a chrome audio dongle via optical) (my preferred solution but adds $35 to the cost).
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm thinking about the RX A 1070 actually. It's at $599 from accessories4less. It's a little weird as it runs $599 for the Black Friday sale but it is also available today at the same price, :).

I'm running a 2.1 system so the R N 803 stereo receiver ($499) ticks a lot of boxes for me but I'd end up using my TV as an HDMI switcher. I don't have a lot of inputs so that can work (blu ray, cable box, streamer).

I figure for an extra $100 I'll save myself some headaches down the road so I'll likely get the RX A 1070.

Everything else being equal, I want a yamaha system as I like Music cast. I'm using that now in my main 2 channel stereo rig. It works well. The downside is that DLNA is so so (iTunes is much better at organizing your music) and its support for music streaming services is not robust (no native support for Amazon music) . You can get around some of those problems by relying on bluetooth (it does not do apt x but it does aac if you have an IOS device),airplay (but not airplay 2, not a problem though if you use a PC as a source),or a chrome audio dongle via optical) (my preferred solution but adds $35 to the cost).
I would never buy any AVR refurbished. But if I were, it would be a Yamaha since they are #1 in reliability. :D

Just wait for Black Friday and buy it new.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I have bought new speakers from AFL and it was a great deal. I haven’t tried buying refurbished gear from them though. I’m sure somebody here has and can chime in. Otherwise create a new thread about it and someone will chime in there. :)
 
B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
I would never buy any AVR refurbished. But if I were, it would be a Yamaha since they are #1 in reliability. :D

Just wait for Black Friday and buy it new.
Why not buy refurbished AVR? I've bought refurbished stereo gear from AFL and I've been very happy with the products. The warranty is shorter but you can buy an extended warranty.

I've always thought that in some ways buying a refurbished product may be better than buying a new one since presumably a tech service person checked out the unit.

I can buy an open box denon avr x3400 for $499; that's a pretty nice unit . . .

But yeah, I'm just gathering info at this point. I'm waiting to see if I can get a good deal on the AVR I want on Black Friday.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I've always thought that in some ways buying a refurbished product may be better than buying a new one since presumably a tech service person checked out the unit.
Absolutely NOT in my experience. :D

@TLS Guy can elaborate. But bottom line, these electronics are so complex. I personally would not trust some guy to be 100% thorough and competent. :D

@TechHDS bought his current Yamaha refurbished from A4L. Others have bought their AVR's from A4L also.

I have never dealt with A4L.

So maybe it's all okay with them. Just saying my personal general opinion. :D

At any rate, it makes no sense to me to buy a refurbished AVR if a brand new AVR costs the same or about the same.
 
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H

hifihillbilly

Junior Audioholic
Did not see much about the Integra line here. What is the consensus regarding the DRX 4.2 and higher AVR's
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Did not see much about the Integra line here. What is the consensus regarding the DRX 4.2 and higher AVR's
Integra took a knock with their bad hdmi/network board issues a few years back, there are a few Integra users around here of both the older gear as well as newer....just fancy Onkyo boxes to my mind.

ps Don't know if you saw but Sound United (Denon, Marantz et al) just took over Onkyo/Pioneer....
 
H

hifihillbilly

Junior Audioholic
Integra took a knock with their bad hdmi/network board issues a few years back, there are a few Integra users around here of both the older gear as well as newer....just fancy Onkyo boxes to my mind.

ps Don't know if you saw but Sound United (Denon, Marantz et al) just took over Onkyo/Pioneer....
I did see that. Thanks
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Absolutely NOT in my experience. :D

@TLS Guy can elaborate. But bottom line, these electronics are so complex. I personally would not trust some guy to be 100% thorough and competent. :D

@TechHDS bought his current Yamaha refurbished from A4L. Others have bought their AVR's from A4L also.

I have never dealt with A4L.

So maybe it's all okay with them. Just saying my personal general opinion. :D

At any rate, it makes no sense to me to buy a refurbished AVR if a brand new AVR costs the same or about the same.
Totally agree, buy the new when a few 100 or less is involved. Now would I buy are refurbished unit for $1,000? When the new unit is only 300 more? That's a no-brainer you go with the new unit. Now when your talking about 299.00 as opposed to 1000 new unit, yeah get the refurb. I couldn't use Atmos at the time. But do I need, or want :D Atmos or DTS-X? You bet I do. :D
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
I see alot of talk in this thread about reliability, warranties, features, EQ, this and that.

How about.... SOUND QUALITY. Shouldn't that be essentially the most important factor that we all care about? It's powering our freaking speakers, after all.

It doesn't matter how cheap something is, or how great the warranty is, or how many watts per channel, or other neato-features it has if it doesn't make your speaker's sound quality seem amazing.

To that end... which brand has the best SQ?

A lot of people ask for advice when choosing AVRs.

A lot of recommendations have been for the Denon X3000/4000 series because of the big sale prices and Audyssey XT32.

But before we can make the recommendation, we have to ask them, "What is the salient factor?"

Is it Reliability? Is owning an AVR that has the best chance of lasting 20 years the salient factor to you?

If reliability is the salient factor, then Yamaha is the answer, according to the repair data that @M Code sees.

If US warranty is the salient factor, then Sony ES is the answer because Sony is the only brand in the USA that offers a 5YR warranty on their ES AVR's.

If cost is the salient factor, then Denon is usually the answer because Denon usually offers more sales than any brand I know. For 7.2Ch Dolby ATMOS AVRs, right now the Yamaha RX-A1070 is $839 on Amazon. The Denon X3400 is $599 on Amazon. The Sony ES1100 is $900. The Anthem MRX720 is $2,500. :D

If room EQ is the salient factor, then it gets 200% grayer because the opinions vary so much.

Some people (myself, @TLS Guy, and some others) don't think any room EQ should be used at all. Some have used or heard Anthem's ARC REQ (and other REQ's) and didn't like the results.

Others feel that certain room EQ's are great.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I see alot of talk in this thread about reliability, warranties, features, EQ, this and that.

How about.... SOUND QUALITY. Shouldn't that be essentially the most important factor that we all care about? It's powering our freaking speakers, after all.

It doesn't matter how cheap something is, or how great the warranty is, or how many watts per channel, or other neato-features it has if it doesn't make your speaker's sound quality seem amazing.

To that end... which brand has the best SQ?
Well, hell, fill us in on this whole sound quality ranking thing by millions of subjective opinions and how you solved the whole thing. Thanks in advance.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I see alot of talk in this thread about reliability, warranties, features, EQ, this and that.

How about.... SOUND QUALITY. Shouldn't that be essentially the most important factor that we all care about? It's powering our freaking speakers, after all.

It doesn't matter how cheap something is, or how great the warranty is, or how many watts per channel, or other neato-features it has if it doesn't make your speaker's sound quality seem amazing.

To that end... which brand has the best SQ?
In Direct/Straight/Stereo modes where very little or no EQ/DSP is applied, they all sound equally great.

However, the SQ will differ when you apply EQ/DSP.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
I see alot of talk in this thread about reliability, warranties, features, EQ, this and that.

How about.... SOUND QUALITY. Shouldn't that be essentially the most important factor that we all care about? It's powering our freaking speakers, after all.

It doesn't matter how cheap something is, or how great the warranty is, or how many watts per channel, or other neato-features it has if it doesn't make your speaker's sound quality seem amazing.

To that end... which brand has the best SQ?
Umm, you did see the Threads title? Marantz Denon vs Yamaha Anthem. As for which AVR would sound the best? You asked a loaded question my friend. Audio is a very subjective hobby.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
I see alot of talk in this thread about reliability, warranties, features, EQ, this and that.

How about.... SOUND QUALITY. Shouldn't that be essentially the most important factor that we all care about? It's powering our freaking speakers, after all.

It doesn't matter how cheap something is, or how great the warranty is, or how many watts per channel, or other neato-features it has if it doesn't make your speaker's sound quality seem amazing.

To that end... which brand has the best SQ?
Lolo, really good points you made. The more I read your post the more I like it. Lol. I get your point though. When I first joined up on AH like you I was reading a lot of Threads in here I was like to myself that is, why these dudes always talking about Specs this, measurements that, you know engineer kind of stuff? and I would post up comments to these guys pretty much the same way you just have. You know what? even though I didn't understand at the time just exactly how all the jargon goes up in here with these guys cause well a lot of these guy have engineer degrees, some are actually audio engineers. So I would post up and guess what? If I asked just what they really where talking about they would take the time to stop what they where discussing and you know what come to find out they really are talkin about sound quality when there comparing specs, graphs technical stuff. I guess what I'm saying the guys up in here won't talk up the fluffy stuff, like oh yeah man that Yamaha has a nice warm Chillout sound man, much better than those Denon AVR'S they got that rad ringing sound. I believe Forums like AVS or Emotivas Lounge has plenty of Kool-Aid guys like that but you won't find these dudes here cause the ole timers will call them out in a heart beat.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Agreed. Sound “quality” will change by whichever auto EQ room correction you use. Ypao, mcacc, audyssey etc will try to eq the AVR to take your room out of the equation. But as said, in straight or direct modes, you shouldn’t hear anything appreciable.
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
Agreed. Sound “quality” will change by whichever auto EQ room correction you use. Ypao, mcacc, audyssey etc will try to eq the AVR to take your room out of the equation. But as said, in straight or direct modes, you shouldn’t hear anything appreciable.
I'm not so certain about that. In 2 channel stereo, maybe.

But these units have different amplifiers, pre-amp components, different power supplies, different build layouts, and different brands/levels of DACs, different DSPs, etc. It's not crazy to think these brands would sound different.

I was just asking if anyone had observed differences.

To truly know... you'd have to perform a controlled test: Use the same room, same speakers, same media... but swap receivers in and out, to do an A/B comparison.

Some owners might have done this in their own homes, testing out different equipment. I can say that my current Yahama RXA1080 has a different sound than the older Pioneer Elite I had, in the same room. It is more detailed and has a better sound stage, though it is not dramatically different.

(These were both in 2 channel mode, on the "Direct" settings)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm not so certain about that. In 2 channel stereo, maybe.

But these units have different amplifiers, pre-amp components, different power supplies, different build layouts, and different brands/levels of DACs, different DSPs, etc. It's not crazy to think these brands would sound different.

I was just asking if anyone had observed differences.

To truly know... you'd have to perform a controlled test: Use the same room, same speakers, same media... but swap receivers in and out, to do an A/B comparison.

Some owners might have done this in their own homes, testing out different equipment. I can say that my current Yahama RXA1080 has a different sound than the older Pioneer Elite I had, in the same room. It is more detailed and has a better sound stage, though it is not dramatically different.

(These were both in 2 channel mode, on the "Direct" settings)
I’ve listened and compared various brands over the past 25 years.

In Direct modes, there really is not much of a difference when you level match everything.

To most people, “not much of a difference” and “not dramatically different” = why bother arguing about it.

As already mentioned by HD and @Phase 2, you’re asking for a bunch of “my AVR sounds better than your AVR because I’ve compared and I say so”.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
I'm not so certain about that. In 2 channel stereo, maybe.

But these units have different amplifiers, pre-amp components, different power supplies, different build layouts, and different brands/levels of DACs, different DSPs, etc. It's not crazy to think these brands would sound different.

I was just asking if anyone had observed differences.

To truly know... you'd have to perform a controlled test: Use the same room, same speakers, same media... but swap receivers in and out, to do an A/B comparison.

Some owners might have done this in their own homes, testing out different equipment. I can say that my current Yahama RXA1080 has a different sound than the older Pioneer Elite I had, in the same room. It is more detailed and has a better sound stage, though it is not dramatically different.

(These were both in 2 channel mode, on the "Direct" settings)
I see you have the Yamaha A1080, how are you enjoying that unit? Any problems with it? From the reviews that I have run across the ratings are good. My Son has the A1050, have you had a chance to use the AL with movies?
 

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