The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[Bookmark]

I am currently running 7.1.2 The 7.1 layout is pretty much as specced by Dolby and has always worked well in the past. The heights could probably do with being at least a foot or two higher than currently. It's mess about in progress I have not yet tried, but could switch the Back Surrounds to Rear Heights and have 5.1.4 now. I will may be give it a try later on.

If 7.1/5.1 discs are good then they are still good, upmix or not. Bad mixes will still be bad, upmix or not, Oceans 11 for example has almost no rear use and is I think Dts MA. Bad films with good mixes like for instance Sucicde Squad does sound IMO much better than before using Atmos. I did watch Player One pre and post Heights and that first race scene is definitely improved.

I am not entirely sure if you don't have the additional speakers setup, whether selecting the Straight or DSU/Neural X options on the Yammy gives you the Atmos/Dts:X mix for those discs if they have them or just the core True HD/Dts MA.

My memory could be suspect, so comparing like for like, after some time, with and without the additional speakers may indicate I just notice things that were there before, just more obviously.

Jason Bourne for example sounded good when it was only setup for 7.1. Having tried it with the Atmos track and front Heights, I can't say that I noticed much difference.

I have tried muting and un-muting the Marantz which is handling the Height speakers and to be honest I can't say if I noticed. However as I mentioned earlier, seems there is more interaction in the base layer so that could account for it. If having the speakers set on the Yammy means it uses Atmos rather than True HD then you would still get some effects even if the Marantz is off. If that makes any sense.

 

[Dmantis10]

AVR vs Separates is more need then who is better.
If your speakers are easy to drive like 8 ohms and 90+ db sensitive then a good quality AVR will get the job done and sound fantastic doing so. Now if you have hard to drive speakers like 6 or 4 ohm at 88 or lower db then you should strongly consider going with separates or at least a external amp which now you have separates.

I have gone back and forth with separates as I have changed my speakers many times and felt the need for more power. I currently have easy to drive speakers at 8 ohm 93db but they sound so much better with either a power amp or a high end receiver.
I only buy flagship receivers so I always get the best possible sound quality from the brand I decide to go with. I don't like skimping on power. I like dynamic range and head room so I can enjoy my content without limiting the ability to play it back.

There is no blanket statement that states separates are better then receivers in all cases because many higher end receivers can sound as good or better then some separates.

At the end of the day you need to buy what works in your room and can easily drive your given speaker package.

 

[PENG]

There is no blanket statement that states separates are better then receivers in all cases because many higher end receivers can sound as good or better then some separates.

At the end of the day you need to buy what works in your room and can easily drive your given speaker package.

Imo this is a fact, but can only convince most people using proper listening test protcols. Otherwise, as ADTG said (assuming jokingly), to some people, separates sound better regardless..

 

[PENG]

I have tried muting and un-muting the Marantz which is handling the Height speakers and to be honest I can't say if I noticed. However as I mentioned earlier, seems there is more interaction in the base layer so that could account for it. If having the speakers set on the Yammy means it uses Atmos rather than True HD then you would still get some effects even if the Marantz is off. If that makes any sense.

How about thundering and helicopters that came from high up in the sky kind of sound? Wouldn't those sound more exciting with the height/Atmos enabled?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AVR vs Separates is more need then who is better.
If your speakers are easy to drive like 8 ohms and 90+ db sensitive then a good quality AVR will get the job done and sound fantastic doing so.

If you're into 9CH Stereo mode or 7CH Stereo mode, then you might want an external amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Imo this is a fact, but can only convince most people using proper listening test protcols. Otherwise, as ADTG said (assuming jokingly), to some people, separates sound better regardless..

And even if you do convince people that AVR can sound as good, some of them will still buy separates Pre-pro, instead of AVR.

Look at me.

I don't need anyone to convince me. I already know. I'm the "choir".

Yet, when my Denon AVP-A1HDCI Pre-pro croaked after just 8 short years, I still went with another Pre-pro (Yamaha CX-A5100) because I'm hoping that it will last a lot longer.

For some, owning separates is not about needs, it's about choices and desires.

 

[Bookmark]

Oh yes there will be moments where the Overheads/heights bring in the fun. When I watched The Great Wall, don't judge me , the bit near the end in the Sewer the stampede overhead was very good and convincing and I'm pretty sure I didn't hear that the last time I watched it.

 

[TechHDS]

And even if you do convince people that AVR can sound as good, some of them will still buy separates Pre-pro, instead of AVR.

Look at me.

I don't need anyone to convince me. I already know. I'm the "choir".

Yet, when my Denon AVP-A1HDCI Pre-pro croaked after just 8 short years, I still went with another Pre-pro (Yamaha CX-A5100) because I'm hoping that it will last a lot longer.

For some, owning separates is not about needs, it's about choices and desires.

ADTG, you got 8 years out of that Denon prepro that’s longer than some cars or washing machine and dryer‘s. Umm, anyways it was outdated by than, i would’ve been mad to.

Mike

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG, you got 8 years out of that Denon prepro that’s longer than some cars or washing machine and dryer‘s. Umm, anyways it was outdated by than, i would’ve been mad to.

Mike

Yeah, my Jeep Commander 4x4 also croaked after just 8 years.

My Lexus LX 570 is 10 years old and still drives better than many new cars.

I was thinking the Denon AVP-A1HDCI was like a Lexus, but apparently it's more like a Jeep.

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah, my Jeep Commander 4x4 also croaked after just 8 years.

My Lexus LX 570 is 10 years old and still drives better than many new cars.

I was thinking the Denon AVP-A1HDCI was like a Lexus, but apparently it's more like a Jeep.

How many years have the RBH been going?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How many years have the RBH been going?

I've had the RBH SX-T2/R system for about 5 years.

Speaking of RBH, I hope they do go through with selling Multi-Ch amps (as of now, they only have the 2 Subwoofer amps).

 

[Mikado463]

If you're into 9CH Stereo mode or 7CH Stereo mode, then you might want an external amp.

what's '9 channel stereo' ?? I always thought stereo to be 2 channels ??

 

[Mikado463]

And even if you do convince people that AVR can sound as good, some of them will still buy separates Pre-pro, instead of AVR.

I know you like to use the term 'pre-pro' , but as a two channel guy I prefer preamp or line stage , the latter of which gives one further flexibility for a separate phono stage. All of which, IMO is superior to 'your' AVR !

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

what's '9 channel stereo' ?? I always thought stereo to be 2 channels ??

When they take 2Ch (2 Ch driven) source and turn it into 9Ch ALL-Channel Driven to send music to all speakers at the same time.

 

[Mikado463]

When they take 2Ch (2 Ch driven) source and turn it into 9Ch ALL-Channel Driven to send music to all speakers at the same time.

so where is the stereophonic effect ?? seems to me what you described is nothing more than mono to 9 different speakers

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I know you like to use the term 'pre-pro' , but as a two channel guy I prefer preamp or line stage , the latter of which gives one further flexibility for a separate phono stage. All of which, IMO is superior to 'your' AVR !

Well, the Pre-pro is for things like Multi-CH Atmos and DTS:X.

If someone would make a simple stand-alone ATMOS/DTS:X decoder, I would be using 4 Analog Preamps (8CH) like I used to.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

so where is the stereophonic effect ?? seems to me what you described is nothing more than mono to 9 different speakers

Yeah, I would never use anything like this.

I prefer no EQ and no DSP.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For some reason I can't post any pic from Imgur right now, but the new $14 K Bryston SP4 Pre-pro looks very nice, clean, simple with 16CH (including sub output).

Have to pay this kind of money for this kind of simple clean design from Bryston, Theta, DataSAT, ATI ?

http://www.bryston.com/products/digital_audio/SP4.html

 

[Mikado463]

Well, the Pre-pro is for things like Multi-CH Atmos and DTS:X.

If someone would make a simple stand-alone ATMOS/DTS:X decoder, I would be using 4 Analog Preamps (8CH) like I used to.

Again, I know that but not all of us are Multi-channel, surround sound geeks. There some of us that still prefer two channel listening for our music ! Thus the preamp / line stage nomenclature

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Again, I know that but not all of us are Multi-channel, surround sound geeks. There some of us that still prefer two channel listening for our music ! Thus the preamp / line stage nomenclature

I only listen to music in 2CH also. I don't listen to music in MCH mode.

I only use MCH (Atmos, DTS:X, TrueHD, DTS-HD) for movies.

Do you watch movies in 2CH?