The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[sterling shoote]

Through your assertion, you hold the burden of proof. Enlighten me.

I've already done that; but, let's take one measurement, signal to noise ratio. If one component measures 100db and another unit measures 101db that means the unit measuring 101 will sound better even though you would not be able to distinguish it as sounding better. That's to say you could not hear it.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Yes, of course, if you can not hear a difference there is no audible difference but nevertheless if measurement between components is different that suggests the sound will be different whether it is distinguishable by our ears or not. The question might be better asked, at what level of performance can components no longer be distinguished by being heard to sound different.

Sometimes measurements from a device are inaudible. Measurements aren’t sound.

 

[sterling shoote]

Measurements and sound aren’t the same thing.

Measurements, like signal to noise ratio, are indicators to a point for how the sound will be perceived.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I've already done that; but, let's take one measurement, signal to noise ratio. If one component measures 100db and another unit measures 101db that means the unit measuring 101 will sound better even though you would not be able to distinguish it as sounding better. That's to say you could not hear it.

Sometimes the measurements taken from a device are inaudible. Measurements are not sound.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Measurements, like signal to noise ratio, are indicators to a point for how the sound will be perceived.

Most receivers these days have a low noise floor.

 

[sterling shoote]

Sometimes measurements from a device are inaudible. Measurements aren’t sound.

I think many of today's measurements are inaudible. It makes me think that our compendium of measurements over all are inadequate to describe how a component will sound.

 

[sterling shoote]

Most receivers these days have a low noise floor.

Yes, and since you may perceive that one receiver may sound better than another with the identical noise floor, it would appear that a compendium of measurements are necessary to describe the character of sound; and, still these may be inadequate as I alluded to in an earlier post.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've already done that; but, let's take one measurement, signal to noise ratio. If one component measures 100db and another unit measures 101db that means the unit measuring 101 will sound better even though you would not be able to distinguish it as sounding better. That's to say you could not hear it.

Let's define "SOUND".

Sound Wave travels through the air and enters our ears, which is converted to electrical impulses and is sent to the BRAIN.

We're not robots, so our brains do not interpret the sound as one's and zero's.

If your brain cannot distinguish between 101dB vs 100dB, then the SOUND will be the same.

SOUND is what our brains actually hear/perceive/interpret/distinguish, not the difference in measured numbers.

Wait a minute, are you a bad robot?

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Yes, and since you may perceive that one receiver may sound better than another with the identical noise floor, it would appear that a compendium of measurements are necessary to describe the character of sound; and, still these may be inadequate as I alluded to in an earlier post.

You are an audiophile aren’t you?

 

[sterling shoote]

Let's define "SOUND".

Sound Wave travels through the air and enters our ears, which is converted to electrical impulses and is sent to the BRAIN.

We're not robots, so our brains do not interpret the sound as one's and zero's.

If your brain cannot distinguish between 101dB vs 100dB, then the SOUND will be the same.

SOUND is what our brains actually hear/perceive/interpret/distinguish, not the difference in measured numbers.

Measurements are a word description of sound, no more, no less. And, there is a point it appears that such descriptions are no longer relative to what we hear as sounding better in any manner that better can be discerned.

 

[sterling shoote]

You are an audiophile aren’t you?

No, but I was at one time. I believe that audiophiles suffer a mental disorder manifesting itself in compulsive and obsessive behavior, thus, precluding any pleasure or enjoyment with the music or subject of the obsession. For the most part, I stopped participating in the madness back when the first CD Players came out. I so much liked that there were no more snaps, crackles, and pops I was accustomed to with vinyl. With these short comings in vinyl eliminated, I actually began to enjoy the music, satisfied since that it all sounds great.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Measurements are a word description of sound, no more, no less. And, there is a point it appears that such descriptions are no longer relative to what we hear as sounding better in any manner that better can be discerned.

R---------- I ------------ G -------------- H ------------- T

So, what you're saying is that you voted for Separates sounding better than AVR ? Is that what you're saying?

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Measurements are a word description of sound, no more, no less. And, there is a point it appears that such descriptions are no longer relative to what we hear as sounding better in any manner that better can be discerned.

Since you say measurements are sound, when you listen to music, what type(s) of device(s) do you use?

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

No, but I was at one time. I believe that audiophiles suffer a destructive behavior, which is both compulsive and obsessive, thus, precluding any pleasure or enjoyment with the music or subject of the obsession.

Sounds like a confession.

 

[sterling shoote]

Since you say measurements are sound, when you listen to music, what type(s) of device(s) do you use?

No, I said measurements are a word description of sound. Digital one's and zero's are also a word description of sound.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

No, I said measurements are a word description of sound. Digital one's and zero's are also a word description of sound.

Speakers are a word description of sound. Headphones are a word description of sound.

 

[sterling shoote]

Sounds like a confession.

There's nothing to confess. Mental health is largely a condition where we respond to life appropriately or inappropriately. Indulgence in any hobby can be seen as appropriate or inappropriate. For most of us, we can balance things but those who can not they can become be very sick or disturbed by their actions, like choosing audio over family interaction, which further isolates.

 

[sterling shoote]

Speakers are a word description of sound. Headphones are a word description of sound.

What speakers produce, a wave, is not a word description of sound. A measurement of the speakers response is a word description.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

There's nothing to confess. Mental health is largely a condition where we respond to life appropriately or inappropriately. Indulgence in any hobby can be seen as appropriate or inappropriate. For most of us, we can balance things but those who can not can be made very sick or disturbed by their actions, like choosing audio over family interaction, which further isolates.

Well I’m glad to hear psychotherapy helped. Were any meds required? Or did your therapist just tell you to stay away from expensive audio salons?

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

What speakers produce, a wave, is not a word description of sound. A measurement of the speakers response is a word description.

Boom - a word description of sound.