The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[sterling shoote]

I must agree that your response sounds very vague.

It's about as vague as demanded by the original question which cannot be answered as written, since it is asking for an absolute in an arena where informed opinion is not yet established fact.

 

[sterling shoote]

In marketing, not only in the A/V business, there is a lot of bullshit!

Indeed.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

The point is this, although you can not hear a difference the difference still exists. The unequal measurements prove it, although no one on the Planet could hear it. It's kind of like, If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it does it make a sound?

Then it doesn’t matter does it? Save your money and enjoy the music.

 

[sterling shoote]

Bottom-line on all of this for me is this: If the measurements are different this suggests the sound is different. The degree of difference would indicate whether anyone could actually hear a difference. In other words, this topic is more academic than it is relevant to product satisfaction.

 

[sterling shoote]

Then it doesn’t matter does it? Save your money and enjoy the music.

Yes, save your money and enjoy the music; but, as we both know that is an obstacle for the "audiophile".

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

It's about as vague as demanded by the original question which cannot be answered as written, since it is asking for an absolute in an arena where informed opinion is not yet established fact.

The original question is not vague. It is very specific. The answer to the question exists in objective scientific testing and not subjective biased opinions.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Yes, save your money and enjoy the music; but, as we both know that is an obstacle for the "audiophile".

That’s why public forums like this one exist so that accurate information can be shared for free.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The point is this, although you can not hear a difference the difference still exists. The unequal measurements prove it, although no one on the Planet could hear it. It's kind of like, If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it does it make a sound?

If you cannot actually HEAR a difference, then there is no AUDIBLE difference.

If Drug A (costs $10,000) lowers your blood pressure from 140 mmHg to 110 mmHg and Drug B (costs $10) lowers your blood pressure from 140 mmHg to 111 mmHg, are you going to pay $10,000 for Drug A (with everything else being equal)?

The point is, why pay $30,000 for a Pre-pro if you cannot actually HEAR a difference from a $1,000 Pre-pro?

Going back to your tree analogy, if a tree falls in the forest and you're NOT there to HEAR it, would you pay $30,000 to silence this fall (if your only intention is to not hear the noise)?

 

[sterling shoote]

The original question is not vague. It is very specific. The answer to the question exists in objective scientific testing and not subjective biased opinions.

OK, then it proves that all electronics sound different but the difference may not be discernable; and thus, not the best way to select electronics. Might be better to look at features or price.

 

[sterling shoote]

That’s why public forums like this one exist so that accurate information can be shared for free.

Yes, accurate as well as information from those without the credentials to deliver an informed opinion.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

OK, then it proves that all electronics sound different but thw difference may not be discernable.

You mean it proves that all electronics MEASURE differently in different labs, but the differences are INAUDIBLE.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Bottom-line on all of this for me is this: If the measurements are different this suggests the sound is different.

Wrong. That has to be proven with objective blind listening tests. Sighted listening produces errors.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

OK, then it proves that all electronics sound different but the difference may not be discernable; and thus, not the best way to select electronics. Might be better to look at features or price.

How does it prove ‘all electronics sound different’?

 

[sterling shoote]

Wrong. That has to be proven with objective blind listening tests. Sighted listening produces errors.

No it's very much correct. The measurements prove the equipment sounds different; but, your ears prove you can not hear such difference.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

No it's very much correct. The measurements prove the equipment sounds different; but, your ears prove you can not hear such difference.

Wrong. The measurements don’t prove the equipment ‘sounds’ different.

 

[sterling shoote]

Wrong.

No, right.

 

[sterling shoote]

You mean it proves that all electronics MEASURE differently in different labs, but the differences are INAUDIBLE.

That would seem to be the case.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

That would seem to be the case.

Measurements and sound aren’t the same thing.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

No, right.

Through your assertion, you hold the burden of proof. Enlighten me.

 

[sterling shoote]

If you cannot actually HEAR a difference, then there is no AUDIBLE difference.

If Drug A (costs $10,000) lowers your blood pressure from 140 mmHg to 110 mmHg and Drug B (costs $10) lowers your blood pressure from 140 mmHg to 111 mmHg, are you going to pay $10,000 for Drug A (with everything else being equal)?

The point is, why pay $30,000 for a Pre-pro if you cannot actually HEAR a difference from a $1,000 Pre-pro?

Going back to your tree analogy, if a tree falls in the forest and you're NOT there to HEAR it, would you pay $30,000 to silence this fall (if your only intention is to not hear the noise)?

Yes, of course, if you can not hear a difference there is no audible difference but nevertheless if measurement between components is different that suggests the sound will be different whether it is distinguishable by our ears or not. The question might be better asked, at what level of performance can components no longer be distinguished by being heard to sound different.