Needing new AVR, or switch to separates?

[lovinthehd]

You might also want to make sure your avr has plenty of ventilation, lack of and heat build-up could be what killed your old avr.

 

[Verdinut]

* ITEMS ORDERED:
MARANTZ
SR6011 9.2-Ch x 110 Watts Networking A/V Receiver

Hopefully it's as good as everyone says Thank all of you so incredibly much for all of the advice! Couldn't have asked for more.

While awaiting receipt of the SR6011, I would suggest that you download and print the Owner's Manual from Marantz website to get acquainted with its numerous features. It's not supplied with the receiver. It's a thick book containing about 300 pages.

Cheers,

 

[mtrycrafts]

so you think there is an AVR out there capable of performing as well on lets say the soon to be released Maggie 30.7's as quality separates ?

Firstly, why would one match speakers with an incapable amp of any kind?
Second, why would amps sound different if the amps are not driven beyond their design specs and have sufficiently low output impedance? And thirdly, one would have to test the competing amps to find out; why assume otherwise?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Lol. That’s funny. Your kidding, right?


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Present your credible evidence, please, not anecdotes and sheer speculations, thanks.

 

[lovinthehd]

While awaiting receipt of the SR6011, I would suggest that you download and print the Owner's Manual from Marantz website to get acquainted with its numerous features. It's not supplied with the receiver. It's a thick book containing about 300 pages.

Cheers,

I just download manuals, never print them....

 

[carlthess40]

Let me quote “Digital trends publications”

THE PROS AND CONS

The three most popular arguments in favor of separates are more power, better build quality and upgradeability. A dedicated amplifier is capable of delivering higher quality power and, usually, more of it. Since separates are aimed chiefly at high-end users, high quality parts are used in almost every aspect of the build. Pre-amps get better circuits, capacitors, potentiometers and processing chips, to name a few. Amps usually get bigger power supplies, more heat sinks and a better chassis. Also, since high-voltage (amplifiers) and low-voltage (pre-amps) applications don’t like to live in close quarters, putting them in their own rooms makes everyone happier. As for upgradeability, the idea is that you can keep the same amp or amps in perpetuity, so long as they are treated well and maintained, of course. Just trade-up your pre-amp to the next greatest thing and relax knowing your amp will handle whatever you throw at it.

The two most popular arguments against separates seem to be price and convenience. Separates on their own tend to cost a bit more -- all other factors being equal -- but then there’s the additional wires and power consumption that come along with separates. Plus, since processor technology is constantly evolving, it won’t be long until something comes out that makes a pre-amp go from state of the art to just art (which is still perfectly lovely, of course). If you are the sort of person who absolutely must have HDMI 1.5d (there is no such thing, by the way…yet) then as a pre-amp owner, you are going to be doing a lot of buying and selling and that’s just not convenient.


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[carlthess40]

And also because I’m a owner of both types of audio gear for more then 35 years.
My list of gear as of today are
Denon avr-x2200w for my live ing room setup 7.1
Bed room setup
Krell preamp and 4 Krell amps
Ksa-150 and kav-500 amps
And all klipsch speaker
Heresy1 for fronts
Ki-102 for sides and rears
Yamaha center s4115h II
Subs. Svs BP12
Muse 18”
Klipsch rw12
Klipsch kg4
Klipsch r15m 6 of them
Denon dp37f turntable
Sony ps-lx4 turntable
Denon DRA-32R receiver
Yamaha CDX-470 CD player
And countless other gear around my house


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[PENG]

There are far more 'AVR' experts on this board than me to be honest. I'm first and foremost a two channel guy. My home theatre system is 'modest' at best. So, with that being said my current AVR (Denon 3300) is performing admirably !

Your meant the very old avr-3300, not the newer avr-x3300w right?

 

[PENG]

* ITEMS ORDERED:
MARANTZ
SR6011 9.2-Ch x 110 Watts Networking A/V Receiver

Hopefully it's as good as everyone says Thank all of you so incredibly much for all of the advice! Couldn't have asked for more.

I am surprised no one suggested the avr-x4300h for the same money. The Marantz is also good.

 

[TGTBATQ]

You might also want to make sure your avr has plenty of ventilation, lack of and heat build-up could be what killed your old avr.

I have my receiver sitting on the bottom shelf of a multi-level book case that is entirely open on the sides and has about 8 inches of clearance before the next "level" -- very much like this, only slightly different design. With my AVR running, using an IR thermo it's hitting 108f at the hottest point I can find.
The only thing I can think of in the way of semi-preventable issues is I have 3 large dogs that generate quite a bit of hair, but generally they aren't allowed in the room where I keep my expensive things
Hopefully I won't need the external cooling that Verdinut linked, but I'll probably just order it anyway as it's really highly rated to be extremely useful, and as said before, heat is the killer of electronics!

 

[KEW]

With separates you will get better sound and life. When ever you remove the amp from the preamp side you don’t have all the heat inside there toasting all the parts inside the preamp and it gives them more room to install better parts. Remember that heat is the killing of all Electronics


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Please list 5 channel pre and 5 channel amp with ability to integrate subwoofer that you believe would be superior to Marantz or Denon AVR with $1000 budget!
Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

With separates you will get better sound and life. When ever you remove the amp from the preamp side you don’t have all the heat inside there toasting all the parts inside the preamp and it gives them more room to install better parts. Remember that heat is the killing of all Electronics


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Also present proof on how that you get a better life via separates

 

[Mikado463]

Your meant the very old avr-3300, not the newer avr-x3300w right?

no, sorry, the new one, x3300

 

[Mikado463]

Firstly, why would one match speakers with an incapable amp of any kind?
Second, why would amps sound different if the amps are not driven beyond their design specs and have sufficiently low output impedance? And thirdly, one would have to test the competing amps to find out; why assume otherwise?

Like I said........show me a capable AVR that will drive the Maggies, for every receiver you think can get the job done there are plenty more separates !

Listen, I was merely trying to point out to you and your legion of 'AVR's are all you'll ever need' followers that sometimes there are far better options as well as situations that beg otherwise.

 

[Mikado463]

Also present proof on how that you get a better life via separates

$$$ , name me one receiver that has better build quality than my my Pass X260.8's

 

[Mikado463]

Please list 5 channel pre and 5 channel amp with ability to integrate subwoofer that you believe would be superior to Marantz or Denon AVR with $1000 budget!
Thanks!

We covered that in post #5 .......

 

[lovinthehd]

$$$ , name me one receiver that has better build quality than my my Pass X260.8's

It was meant as a joke on the way it was written, I assume he meant life of components rather than quality of life....

OTOH how many avrs would you have to buy to approach the price of your Pass units?

 

[yepimonfire]

What’s wrong with the receiver? Dust can be vacuumed.

The first question I’d ask yourself is what are you trying to achieve? A separate amp does one thing and one thing only, adds more power. If you don’t actually need the power, you’re just wasting money. Most people need less power than they think for music. Even in a big room listening at 90dB avg, you’re likely using no more than 15w avg with peaks of 50w.

If the receiver has preouts, I’d add a pro audio amp, like a behringer inuke or crown.



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[TLS Guy]

Let me quote “Digital trends publications”

THE PROS AND CONS

The three most popular arguments in favor of separates are more power, better build quality and upgradeability. A dedicated amplifier is capable of delivering higher quality power and, usually, more of it. Since separates are aimed chiefly at high-end users, high quality parts are used in almost every aspect of the build. Pre-amps get better circuits, capacitors, potentiometers and processing chips, to name a few. Amps usually get bigger power supplies, more heat sinks and a better chassis. Also, since high-voltage (amplifiers) and low-voltage (pre-amps) applications don’t like to live in close quarters, putting them in their own rooms makes everyone happier. As for upgradeability, the idea is that you can keep the same amp or amps in perpetuity, so long as they are treated well and maintained, of course. Just trade-up your pre-amp to the next greatest thing and relax knowing your amp will handle whatever you throw at it.

The two most popular arguments against separates seem to be price and convenience. Separates on their own tend to cost a bit more -- all other factors being equal -- but then there’s the additional wires and power consumption that come along with separates. Plus, since processor technology is constantly evolving, it won’t be long until something comes out that makes a pre-amp go from state of the art to just art (which is still perfectly lovely, of course). If you are the sort of person who absolutely must have HDMI 1.5d (there is no such thing, by the way…yet) then as a pre-amp owner, you are going to be doing a lot of buying and selling and that’s just not convenient.


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I agree with you completely.

Unfortunately for most receivers are a necessary evil. However the whole concept of a receiver is a terrible idea. I just do not believe you can make decent robust, reliable power amps and all the complexity in receivers for the price offered.

I would never think of using a receiver for any system I expected to get long term use out of.

Decent power amps are just a gift that keeps on giving. Despite the cost I truly believe people would come out money ahead over time if they used separates.

My system could not even be driven by a receiver anyway. I suppose I could use a receiver with pre outs. However I would rip out the power amps and chuck them in the garbage where they belong first.

And I should point out the OP only got 2.5 years use out of a receiver from one of the three top receiver brands. I don't think his experience is unusual at all.

He has no use for AV so he really does not need a receiver. He could get a very nice vintage two channel set up, and he could get a DAC to make the optical connection.

Of course I would recommend a Quad set up and more likely than not he would have it for the rest of his life. I watch eBay closely and he may be too late, as vintage Quad prices are starting to go through the roof. I guess the secret is out. There are still good deal to be had though if you follow closely.

 

[yepimonfire]

I agree with you completely.

Unfortunately for most receivers are a necessary evil. However the whole concept of a receiver is a terrible idea. I just do not believe you can make decent robust, reliable power amps and all the complexity in receivers for the price offered.

I would never think of using a receiver for any system I expected to get long term use out of.

Decent power amps are just a gift that keeps on giving. Despite the cost I truly believe people would come out money ahead over time if they used separates.

My system could not even be driven by a receiver anyway. I suppose I could use a receiver with pre outs. However I would rip out the power amps and chuck them in the garbage where they belong first.

And I should point out the OP only got 2.5 years use out of a receiver from one of the three top receiver brands. I don't think his experience is unusual at all.

He has no use for AV so he really does not need a receiver. He could get a very nice vintage two channel set up, and he could get a DAC to make the optical connection.

Of course I would recommend a Quad set up and more likely than not he would have it for the rest of his life. I watch eBay closely and he may be too late, as vintage Quad prices are starting to go through the roof. I guess the secret is out. There are still good deal to be had though if you follow closely.

Don’t know if his main use is music or not, but personally, I’d use an AVR as a preamp simply because regular two channel stereo sucks. Even though discrete multichannel recordings are pretty much dead at this point, matrix decoders like Dolby surround do a fantastic job of pulling the spatial information out of recordings, especially classical music. 2ch stereo is kind of like simulated surround, it only works if you sit in the sweet spot, outside of it the spatial illusion and depth is lost, with surround upmixing, I can sit off axis and still hear the depth, which has now been routed to the surrounds, the height of the soundstage, which has been routed to the overhead speakers, and focused center image, which is now in an actual center speaker.

As someone who has attended more orchestra performances than I can count, I can say with utmost certainty that Dolby surround upmixing damn near perfectly extracts the spatial information that’s folded down into the stereo mix with extreme precision, and is as close as one can get to reproducing the soundstage of a live performance, in all three dimensions.


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