Why do you want to own an Assault Rifle?

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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
@roadwarrior

I don't believe this thread has evolved into a ban all guns thread!
TLSGuy expressed his optimistic (from his viewpoint) perspective on the topic.
However, it is important to note that he commented on hoping this might be the reality for his grandchildren.

Like you, I have a hard time seeing it ever happening in our country. But I would have lost a lot of money if I had the opportunity to bet on whether same-sex marriage would become legal or women marines would be a thing 30 years ago!
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
@roadwarrior

I don't believe this thread has evolved into a ban all guns thread!
And its not supposed to be. I simply want to know why someone wants to own an assault rifle. I sense that the day is coming where you won't be able to own one outside of prohibitions which will make it completely impractical, or prohibitively expensive, or something along those lines.

So when the only logical arguments I hear are to shoot targets, I'm only more comfortable in this prediction.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
And its not supposed to be. I simply want to know why someone wants to own an assault rifle. I sense that the day is coming where you won't be able to own one outside of prohibitions which will make it completely impractical, or prohibitively expensive, or something along those lines.

So when the only logical arguments I hear are to shoot targets, I'm only more comfortable in this prediction.
I thought this was a well considered argument for the existence of AR's:

Wow! Some aspects of this thread got heated pretty quickly.

I'm going to try to keep politics out of my post and just provide some facts that may help the original poster in his/her question regarding why would someone want to own an assault style rifle.

Today, there are still legitimate uses for rifles. Not if you live in a big city like LA or NYC. But there are legit uses. I remember pulling into my in-laws house a couple of years ago. There was a skunk meandering along the back side of their 6 acres. A recent study up there found over 80% of the skunks in that area were infected with rabies. Not wanting a probably rabid skunk anywhere near my kids, I grabbed my .22 long rifle that I had brought up to sight in the new scope and he grabbed his .22 and away we went. With a new scope not sighted in, I had a very low chance of hitting it but we did get the skunk to leave the area rapidly. Many ranchers, farmers, and land owners use rifles to control for just such issues. You don't want a rabid critter near your horses or livestock. In Texas and other parts of the south, there is a massive problem with non-native wild boars that do a ton of damage to crops, fences, native plants, etc. Wild boars are big, tough, and mean. They will mess you up. So you want to take them out from as far away as you can, hence a rifle.

Ok, so I pointed out some legitimate uses for rifle beyond the basic hunting.

Let's look at the popularity of the AR style rifle. The AR style rifle was originally developed for the military. One of the design aspects of the AR style was the modular design and interchangeability of parts. It's a flexible platform that is easily customized to what you plan to use it for at a very reasonable price. Want to go wild boar hunting? You can set up the AR with a multi-piece scope system that allows you to have a long range scope for an open field distance shot. But there are scope systems that allow for that scope system to be rotated out of the way so you can use open sights or a short scope that is good for short range...as you might find if you were walking through woods in search of wild boar.

A scope that is good for long distance (100+ yards) is typically not good for close up shooting (25 yards or less). A good example is a friend of mine and I were squirrel hunting years ago. It really was just an excuse to go stomping through the woods in fall. Anyway, he had a squirrel run down the tree right next to him. His rifle was set up with a scope. But the squirrel was all of 5 feet from him. He missed because all he could see was brown blur through the scope and couldn't tell squirrel from tree. It's easy to set up an AR style rifle to be flexible for this situation.

The modular design of the AR platform allows for a very flexible system that accommodates a wide range of conditions. Way more flexibility than your typical hunting rifle. Another example is I have a rifle I have set up for deer hunting. It is intended and set up for longer distance hunting such as you would find in the Dakotas or out west where a close shot is 200+ yards away. That's not practical in the midwest where deer hunting shots are typically less than 100 yards. So I would need two different rifles for the two different hunting conditions. With the AR platform, a person would need just one rifle with a few attachments at less total $$ invested.

Another key part of the modular design for the AR platform is it is very easy to change the rifle to fit your body and shooting form. My arm length is different from my brother or my father. Shoulder stocks for the AR platform come in various lengths and also ones that are multi-adjustable. This allows you to adjust how the rifle fits to your shoulder on that given day. With traditional hunting rifles, it's like the old Ford Model T - you can get it in any color as long as what you want is the color black. For traditional hunting rifles, it's pretty much that model comes with that stock. If you need it shorter, grab a saw and start cutting on your brand new rifle. With the AR rifle, you can easily swap out the stock for one that fits you well or is adjustable so you can use it when wearing a t-shirt in summer, or all decked out in cold weather gear for 15 degree F hunting in fall. The adjustments are handy for adjusting to your shooting position: standing, sitting, prone, up-hill, down-hill, etc. Custom and flexible. Are you a left handed shooter? Good luck as almost all rifles are designed for a right handed shooter. The AR platform makes it easier to modify for a left hand shooter.

Another part of the modular design is they can be built in several different calibers, but still have parts that are fully interchangeable. Plus the look and feel of the rifle is the same. Not all hunting rifles are available in the caliber you want. Sometimes, you are choosing a hunting rifle because it fits you well and making a less than ideal decision on caliber because it's not available in your desired caliber. With the AR platform, if you want it in .308 caliber, not a problem. .22LR, no problem.

The AR platform also allows for various barrel lengths and different weighted components to adjust the balance and the weight of the rifle to fit your body and your specific use. Have a disability that makes it difficult to hold up a heavy traditional rifle with your left hand? No problem, an AR can be custom built with a light-weight short barrel and rails to fit your restrictions at a lower cost that a custom made traditional hunting rifle.

I could continue on, but I hope this gives you some insight into why the AR platform is popular. Parts are plentiful, easy to produce, and allows almost infinite customization.

I won't get into magazine capacity. But the fact remains, there are significant parts of our country where you could easily be out for a hike and startle an animal whose reaction is to go on the attack. A walking stick is just going to piss it off. You don't need an AR for walking through Central Park in NYC except at night in dark places but that leads to the question of why are you so stupid as to go walking in dark, hidden places late at night in Central Park. But I can tell you, when I got my ATV badly stuck 2 miles out in the woods in northern Minnesota, the sun was setting and I could hear the wolves howling...I REALLY was wishing I had brought a gun for the long hike out. That was a long, unpleasant hike out. Or that time in Idaho when I startled that mama bear...
I don't know a whole lot about guns, But I might imagine if AR's were banned, a product having the desirable features above, without the ability to be high capacity or to be converted to fully automatic could be designed. I think the current legal definition of an AR might need to be changed though!
 
R

roadwarrior

Audioholic
@roadwarrior

I don't believe this thread has evolved into a ban all guns thread!
I didn't say that it had I said he's having both discussions but I actually agree with many of the points you made earlier.


TLSGuy expressed his optimistic (from his viewpoint) perspective on the topic.
However, it is important to note that he commented on hoping this might be the reality for his grandchildren.
Yeah, I've read every word he'd written myself and I didn't miss that part but there's a lot more he wrote disconnected from that one point regarding a full ban and that's fine but again it's astray from the thread topic as well as providing more fodder for the fear mongers IMHO.

You can say he's not having both discussions at the same time but we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree there. He has the right to have it by the way and that discussion doesn't bother me but his having it while acting like he's not having it is slightly disingenuous.

Like you, I have a hard time seeing it ever happening in our country. But I would have lost a lot of money if I had the opportunity to bet on whether same-sex marriage would become legal or women marines would be a thing 30 years ago!
Agree. For both of those things to happen the country had to lose a few generations beliefs and evolve demographically. Plus both groups had to fight like Hell to get to this point. Maybe it happens and maybe it doesn't.

Common sense gun laws in the present don't scare me either. I'm neither in the "I have the right to own a bazooka" camp nor the "All guns should be banned or in an armory" camp. To me those that only want one of those 2 outcomes will get us equally nowhere.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
I thought this was a well considered argument for the existence of AR's:



I don't know a whole lot about guns, But I might imagine if AR's were banned, a product having the desirable features above, without the ability to be high capacity or to be converted to fully automatic could be designed. I think the current legal definition of an AR might need to be changed though!
When the other President was elected and everyone thought AR's were going to get banned then a lot more of them were purchased than normal.

The only thing that happened was the price of ammo went through the roof and AR's were purchased at a way higher cost. It was actually a decent way to make a little extra money if you saw it coming.

I am using AR as a general term truly meaning Assault Rifle.
 
R

roadwarrior

Audioholic
I want to get back to talking about speakers and subwoofers because that's what makes me but I just wanted to say I hold no ill will towards anyone regarding which side of this issue you're on and I understand this is very maddening and sad to see happen.

I debated whether or not to even post anything at all and I'm still not sure I made the right choice but I feel like I'm a fairly open minded person and it's a discussion worth having. I'm as sick and tired of seeing events like this happen as the next person and I hope our leaders can find some solutions because I think we can all agree that we shouldn't ever get used to innocent people getting shot to death while at a concert or in a school or at their workplace or place of worship.

P.S. Just for the record I believe I'm the only one here who's actually traded his AR in for some nicer speakers instead . Least that's a good start.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
There is no doubt that it is people, not guns that are the problem!
However, unless we have way to actually control/normalize behavior (which comes with its own multitude of ethical concerns), you have to address the problem where you can practicably have control.
Well, parents doing their damn job would be a good start. We have laws. Let's start by teaching people those and give them some basic understanding of human rights and decency.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
“It isn't terribly difficult to rig up IEDs, chemical agents, or deadly projectile slinging devices.”

Far, far more difficult compared to the ease of obtaining assault firearms which offer far greater control, and precision in their carnage. With far far less danger to the perpetrator to execute.

Your rights are from the second amendment which demands that it be “well regulated.” I’m not sure why an argument is made that any kind of laws involving firearms are infringements, and not said regulations.

“The ability to defend myself is a basic human right, well before any 2nd amendment came along.”

Do you need an assault rifle to make ensure this?
It's pretty easy to rig up IEDs and not blow up the builder, but they need to be careful.

The right of self-protection doesn't come from the Bill of Rights, it's inherent and has nothing to do with guns. The 2nd Amendment just makes it a part of our government's founding documents, which were not written to define what the government CAN do, but what it CAN'T. The 2nd also states "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."- it says nothing about regulating the weapons. It means that we shall be allowed to protect ourselves from the government by keeping and bearing arms. These can be guns, hammers, sticks, whatever, but since they weren't stated, it's pretty much open to anything we can get our hands on. That said, almost nobody needs automatic weapons on a regular basis but to your last point, what would you want to have if someone breaks into your house and tries to attack you and/or your family and they have some serious weapons? You would want to have at least the same level of defensive firepower because anything less is bringing a knife to a gunfight.

The reason police departments' weapons were upgraded is because of the bank robbery in California, when the police were seriously out-gunned. Reverse the roles- if we ever reach the point where the police and/or military come for us after we had been forced to relinquish our weapons or they have weapons that are clearly superior to ours, we're screwed.

Personally, I would be happy if people would leave others alone and respect the rights for us to own property. I moved out of the City of Milwaukee because I was tired of losing my stuff, but also because I no longer felt safe. Now, that lack of safety is invading all of the surrounding areas and those who are causing the problems ARE being violent, which should be stopped by any means available.

There's never a good reason to use weapons offensively. That's where people lose track of the arguments for owning these.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I certainly cannot argue the first statement, and the second statement makes sense. However, unless there are ways at hand to reduce, contain, or otherwise control violence (and mental illness), it seems self-defeating to require that as a prerequisite to doing anything.
Maybe you had something in mind (that I'm not considering) when you refer to a holistic approach?

I'm not sure that violence is presently decreasing!
It seems like the level of anger is higher than I've ever noticed, especially considering how deeply it is reaching into our culture. For example, I believe there are currently more mothers (with children at home) who are "fired up" with fear over what the future holds for their children than ever in the past that I have know. Maybe if I were more aware of what was happening during the Vietnam war - I know there was a lot of dessension. I have no idea what the situation of Hitler's era was like for the common US family but think the unity of (the vast majority of) our nation was an important factor in maintaining sanity.
The media are keeping us in a constant state of panic by rapidly sending a barrage of bad news. They used to report what happened, but they added their own slant decades ago, so it's far from unbiased and accurate.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I thought this was a well considered argument for the existence of AR's:



I don't know a whole lot about guns, But I might imagine if AR's were banned, a product having the desirable features above, without the ability to be high capacity or to be converted to fully automatic could be designed. I think the current legal definition of an AR might need to be changed though!
FYI- AR, as used for the model of a gun, stands for Armalite, which is the manufacturer of AR15, etc and not 'Assault Rifle'.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If you're saying that ONLY creating laws is a bad way to deal with crime, I agree. Education and healthcare improvement would also be huge.
And again, read what was written, which was "...creating 'more laws'....". When Congress passes so many laws that it's impossible to learn all of them, people will stop trying and claim ignorance which, BTW, isn't a valid defense even if it's true. We also have a huge problem with judges letting people go free when they have committed serious crimes and have a long criminal history.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I grew up with guns. Had taken every available hunting/safety/gun course available by age 12-13. Grew up in the scouts as well so was surrounded by a lot of positive, no-nonsense male role models to this end. When I was 15, I got my first hunting/assault rifle. A bolt-action Lee-Enfield military rifle manufactured prior to WW2. I still own it and was so well practiced with it at one point, I could get off consecutive rounds in under 2 seconds with a pretty remarkable degree of accuracy. I used to get poked at for such a relatively odd choice of hunting weapon, but then I got kind of notorious for it due to a great deal of success with it. The other firearm I own is a 6" Colt Python I bought new in 1982 for use as a sidearm to hunting.

Back then it was for food. We lived in great part off of the land. Only a fool could starve in Florida. Wild/feral hogs, deer, gators, dove and quail. The rest of the protein came from the bay or the Gulf. Now I don't hunt anymore. The land and the people are too ugly for it. I still fish.

Military styled assault weapons popularity was first initiated by law enforcement. Remember the show, S.W.A.T.? In the vein of the 2nd Amendment, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.", well. . . . match the hatch? The other contributing factor is the all knowing governments "War on Drugs."

Charles Whitman (Texas Tower Sniper) killed 17 and wounded 31 with a hunting rifle in 1966. A haphazard plan and certainly a much less ripe target than Las Vegas today. Still, he leaves clues via a suicide note of the type of person that does this.

Modern assault weapons I don't care for. In this age of CNC everything, they are just more of the same league as overdone Harley Davidsons, turbo cars and body art. 'Yawn."
 
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