Why do you want to own an Assault Rifle?

[slipperybidness]

To defend yourself And your family if things go out of control sideways. As a man I want to always be able to have the upper hand if push comes to shove and not be forced to rely on law enforcement. And I’m not talking about that event where the neighbor pisses me off or something petty like that. I’m talking about that which will likely never happen but it still feels good to be prepared for.

My GF goes to the range with me sometimes, she is actually a pretty good shot. She knows exactly where the loaded Judge stays, she knows how to use it. I tend to prefer revolvers, the simplicity and the lack of a safety. Just point and shoot.

I can tell you, when I am out of town, we both sleep better knowing that she is protected and knows how to protect herself.

See, that's the thing, firearms are "the great equalizer".

 

[slipperybidness]

@ATLAudio
@killdozzer

Let me turn the original question around.

Why do you want ME to NOT own an Aussault Rifle?

 

[highfigh]

killdozzer

I'm going to reply in bold type-

I agree with most of what you wrote. I don't think stray bullets are to blame, though.

You would be surprised by the number of deaths caused by stray bullets. When a drug deal goes bad and someone drives by with a gun out the window, aiming isn't something they worry about and one 9 year old girl was sitting in her grandfather's lap when she was hit-

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Young-girl-shot-in-Milwaukee-home-281875521.html

Also, you bolded some passages on children in America, but you didn't comment. Maybe it got lost due to length. If you're still up for it, let me know why you marked those sentences.

I'll have to get back to you on that.


You shouldn't accept this "violent history" argument. I've heard it numerous times, but only from those who want their guns. I'm a bit ashamed for what I'm about to write, but I will as it may be beneficial. Croatia was Hitler's ally. A horrible fascist state with local fascist government. We didn't have German Nazis come over and occupy like in France or Poland. We did it ourselves. The level of industrial scale genocide and the monstrous devices for the execution of said genocide made even some Nazi officials uneasy. That's for the violent history. Our last war was also dirty as hell. Immediately after the last war there were few executions (underground style), but those were lose ends of the war pertaining to weapon smuggling and such. Twenty seven years have passed (quite a period) and you could count killings by hands. I know we're a small country, but even if you take it by percentage the difference is drastic.

All Hitler needed was to find something that resonated in the minds of other people and he chose a familiar target of hatred.

In order to compare the violence/lack thereof in two countries, you need to compare the populations and look at the statistics. Here, 13% of the population is committing over 50% of the murders and that's easy to find online- there's absolutely no opinion in my making this statement.

I no longer feel safe in areas of Milwaukee where I have lived, driven and ridden my bicycle and I have lived in/near this city my whole life. I hear gunfire frequently, coming from a few blocks away and at times, it almost sounds like a war zone, just without bombs. It's not fireworks, either- I know the difference in the sounds.

Also these cases are useless. I bet you could find one where guns caused tragedy for every each one of those where guns stopped the tragedy. (My bet is actually 10:1 in favour of guns causing tragedies) This is the right equation: no guns = no gun tragedies to be stopped by guns and no guns = no gun tragedies. And even stray bullets come from guns.

Now we have a President who is a gun-happy, U.S. Republican far right admirer, so it all may change. (yes, the red dress idiot running after Trump in all those pictures)

As I and many others in this thread said, you'd like tragedies to stop or drop in numbers, but even giving up one useless hobby and a form of entertainment seems to be too much. I'm an archer. Shoot bows, that's beautiful for marksmanship.

I still have a bow from decades ago but the last time I used it, it was almost like a cartoon because the arc was so extreme. I think it was originally 35 pound pull, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case now- it's made of laminated wood and resin. I have been thinking about buying a new bow but I'm not a hunter. That may change after I retire (coming soon).

Don't get entangled in every "red herring" someone wants you to get entangled in. You have companies who want to see America as a market and sell their guns. That's all there is to it. It's Al Capone getting his hands on Tommy guns all over again. It's about sales.

I realize the gun makers love the sales increase every time something like this happens, but I have a hard time believing they would want lives to be lost just to accomplish this. OTOH, money has no conscience, so....

As my dad would say when he heard about someone's shady financial dealings, "Filthy lucre".

I can't believe every time anyone wants Americans to do something he just drops the "freedom" bomb. Freedom to bear arms makes you less free. Sure, you can buy a gun, but can you go downtown L.A.? Can you walk through the underpass without looking over your shoulder at night? How about gas stop at 03:00am? Subway? Projects? And you say you're free and I'm not?

There are parts of LA where white people shouldn't go in the middle of the day- 3AM would be out of the question. I drove through one of them and as I was buying an iPhone charger to use in the car, the guy at the drug store asked about my plans for my time in L.A.- I told him and his reply was "Well, you don't need to be here". I told my cousin's husband where I had driven and he said that's one of the places where people are dragged out of their cars and beaten/shot, while the attackers drive away. I could have easily become a statistic. For that matter, it's possible to be a statistic here- we made the top 10 in most dangerous cities in the US but the fact is, at least here; not too many local violent crimes are interracial.

Who is preventing you to connect the dots? Who is saying you shouldn't rule on guns after a tragedy and when there's no tragedy then there's other things to worry about? It's under the carpet, under the carpet... Shut up, buy guns and kill yourselves. Who is mass-producing justifications, excuses, arguments? Who is constantly offering reasons to buy more, buy big, change nothing, see everything as infringement?

That's the mouth to put a cork in.

I don't think everyone should be able to have guns- that's a great example of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". Some people are their own worst enemy. I don't like the fear mongering that causes so many people to buy guns & ammunition and then, never touch them until they're needed. I want people to be well trained but the big problem in this country is the illegal possession by felons, which is facilitated by the judges who allow violent criminals to go free or serve short sentences in prison/jail. Look into the gangs in this country and you'll see who is selling most of the illegal guns.

HOWEVER, the fact that I got one "disagree" still makes me think this debate is a good one. Civilised and tolerant enough. Sure, Steve says he removed several posts, but those I can't judge, I haven't seen them.

If one 'disagree' is the only result of someone's comments, it shows a great deal of restraint- some of the comments I have seen online show immaturity and lack of control. If people can't disagree without turning into mortal enemies, I would hope they can't possess or buy guns. Someone disagreed with one of my comments and to be honest, it doesn't matter- I wasn't insulted or angered in any way.

 

[highfigh]

There are some good points made in this thread about guns and other aspects that tie in. Here are my thoughts...

1. I would like to see more mandatory training for firearm owners. I grew up with guns and bows, etc. I have a very healthy respect for them and the people I hunt with and shoot with all have a similar respect for safety. I have been at a range for practice during the gun buying craze and half the shoppers I saw should not own guns. They are afraid of them and when you are afraid, it's easy to make a fatal mistake.

2. I don't see any need for accessories like a bump stock as used in Vegas. I'm very comfortable if those get outlawed.

3. The debate over silencers is stupid. Silencers are not silent. An un-silenced 9mm handgun will cause you to jump and fall out of bed. A silenced 9mm handgun will cause the same result due to the noise. Only difference is the one with a silencer won't have your ears ringing for 30 minutes afterwards.

4. An AR style rifle makes a lousy self-defense weapon. Old fashioned shotguns are the best followed by a handgun. Nothing will give a criminal pause than the sound of a shell being jacked into a 12 ga pump shotgun.

5. Highfigh was spot on about the guns being trafficked by the gangs. More laws won't stop that. In SE Wisconsin, the crime has gotten worse and is spreading. It's mostly juveniles who were not punished for past crimes but are let out because "oh they are just kids who don't have a father and live in poverty and it would be wrong to punish them..." so they learned alright...learned nothing will happen to them so the keep going until they get killed or get arrested because they killed someone. Hell, 3 different car dealerships were targeted last night. All same thing...kids from the hood looking to steal cars for kicks.

6. More important than new gun laws should be mandatory driver training with driving tests every 10 years. More people are killed in auto accidents than shootings by almost a 4:1 ratio. I saw a non-fatal accident just this morning. I could pontificate but this is long already.

I agree with points 1-5.

We just made the #8 spot of the Top 10 most violent cities in America. Yay.

If you're in the MKE area (or near it), you may have seen a news story about an 18 year old guy who was stopped by the police, but he drove off and put the officers in the hospital because, as his dad said on TV, "...he was scared. He's just an 18 year old kid who made a mistake".

Yeah, right. I looked for his last name on CCAP, using only the first letter of his first nam because I didn't remember the spelling. I found that he shares the first name with his dad and then, I saw a familiar name- his grandfather's name was on the list. Crime in that family is generational and I would bet that the only reason nothing before age 18 for this kid is because his juvi record is sealed.

 

[TheWarrior]

@ATLAudio
@killdozzer

Let me turn the original question around.

Why do you want ME to NOT own an Aussault Rifle?

You didn't ask me directly, but I felt compelled to respond:

Because the risk of you missing your target, with an automatic weapon, means there is potential to injure multiple innocent people.

I mean seriously. You're talking about the safety of your loved ones, when ONE man who legally purchased and modified his weapons for automatic fire, just killed or injured over 250 people.

Did you know that many of the victims had to CROWD FUND their medical bills?

I'll say it again: This country has lost it's humanity when gun ownership is a right, but medical treatment for the victims is a privilege.

 

[slipperybidness]

I'll say it again: This country has lost it's humanity when gun ownership is a right, but medical treatment for the victims is a privilege.

That statement, I can't argue with.

However, the actions of someone else has nothing to do with MY actions.

I would never consider a rifle for home defense! That is just silly, a short tactical shotgun is much more ideal for home defense. Use the right tool for the job.

 

[panteragstk]

I'm in Croatia. This will also be my answer to @panteragstk




I agree with most of what you wrote. I don't think stray bullets are to blame, though.

But there's one thing a bit unclear. I have a feeling we're saying the same thing in regards to no laws = no crime. I'm saying "no laws = no crimes" is faulty. Slaves being an excellent example as it shows that traditions can change and at the same time that those who didn't change their ways are prevented by law to do wrong. So good laws = less crime and change is possible is what I'm saying.

Also, you bolded some passages on children in America, but you didn't comment. Maybe it got lost due to length. If you're still up for it, let me know why you marked those sentences.



You shouldn't accept this "violent history" argument. I've heard it numerous times, but only from those who want their guns. I'm a bit ashamed for what I'm about to write, but I will as it may be beneficial. Croatia was Hitler's ally. A horrible fascist state with local fascist government. We didn't have German Nazis come over and occupy like in France or Poland. We did it ourselves. The level of industrial scale genocide and the monstrous devices for the execution of said genocide made even some Nazi officials uneasy. That's for the violent history. Our last war was also dirty as hell. Immediately after the last war there were few executions (underground style), but those were lose ends of the war pertaining to weapon smuggling and such. Twenty seven years have passed (quite a period) and you could count killings by hands. I know we're a small country, but even if you take it by percentage the difference is drastic.

Also these cases are useless. I bet you could find one where guns caused tragedy for every each one of those where guns stopped the tragedy. (My bet is actually 10:1 in favour of guns causing tragedies) This is the right equation: no guns = no gun tragedies to be stopped by guns and no guns = no gun tragedies. And even stray bullets come from guns.

Now we have a President who is a gun-happy, U.S. Republican far right admirer, so it all may change. (yes, the red dress idiot running after Trump in all those pictures)

As I and many others in this thread said, you'd like tragedies to stop or drop in numbers, but even giving up one useless hobby and a form of entertainment seems to be too much. I'm an archer. Shoot bows, that's beautiful for marksmanship.

Don't get entangled in every "red herring" someone wants you to get entangled in. You have companies who want to see America as a market and sell their guns. That's all there is to it. It's Al Capone getting his hands on Tommy guns all over again. It's about sales.

I can't believe every time anyone wants Americans to do something he just drops the "freedom" bomb. Freedom to bear arms makes you less free. Sure, you can buy a gun, but can you go downtown L.A.? Can you walk through the underpass without looking over your shoulder at night? How about gas stop at 03:00am? Subway? Projects? And you say you're free and I'm not?

Who is preventing you to connect the dots? Who is saying you shouldn't rule on guns after a tragedy and when there's no tragedy then there's other things to worry about? It's under the carpet, under the carpet... Shut up, buy guns and kill yourselves. Who is mass-producing justifications, excuses, arguments? Who is constantly offering reasons to buy more, buy big, change nothing, see everything as infringement?

That's the mouth to put a cork in.

HOWEVER, the fact that I got one "disagree" still makes me think this debate is a good one. Civilised and tolerant enough. Sure, Steve says he removed several posts, but those I can't judge, I haven't seen them.

Good points. I will say that I don't accept the argument I posted, just trying to figure out how we have such a huge problem that other countries simply don't seem to have. It doesn't make sense.

 

[slipperybidness]

Good points. I will say that I don't accept the argument I posted, just trying to figure out how we have such a huge problem that other countries simply don't seem to have. It doesn't make sense.

Right!

To be fair, we have several huge problems that other countries don't seem to have!

Education system is pretty high on the list, lack of medical care or insurance, huge national debt, trade deficit, senseless violence, methamphetamine and opioid epidemics, etc.

 

[Alex2507]

The level of industrial scale genocide and the monstrous devices for the execution of said genocide made even some Nazi officials uneasy.

A wiki quote with reference:

The Nazis grew aggravated with the Ustaše, among them Reichsfuhrer SS Heinrich Himmler, who was dissatisfied with the lack of full compliance by the NDH to the Nazis' agenda of extermination of the Jews

~ Balkan Strongmen: Dictators and Authoritarian Rulers of South-Eastern Europe. Purdue University Press. pp. 207–208, 210, 226

If I were you, I'd want an unarmed civilian population too. Last time around Croatians were worried about global opinion. Next time around they're really not gonna care who thinks what. Communists and Serbs have brought war there in the past. Maybe in the future we'll bring it to them.

 

[Ponzio]

272 incidents in the last 274 days of 4 murders or more in the USA as of 10/3/2017 ... just sayin'

 

[ATLAudio]

@ATLAudio
@killdozzer

Let me turn the original question around.

Why do you want ME to NOT own an Aussault Rifle?

CLICK

Who said I didn't? It's up to you to prove the positive, if you indeed support it. I can't defend a negative.

Do you feel like your claims have too much heat? Pity...

 

[ATLAudio]

That statement, I can't argue with.

However, the actions of someone else has nothing to do with MY actions.

I would never consider a rifle for home defense! That is just silly, a short tactical shotgun is much more ideal for home defense. Use the right tool for the job.

"However, the actions of someone else has nothing to do with MY actions."
Can you drink and drive?

"I would never consider a rifle for home defense! That is just silly, a short tactical shotgun is much more ideal for home defense. Use the right tool for the job."

I agree that a pump shotgun is probably best firearm option for "home defense," if you subscribe to it's absurd necessity. However, what's the right job for an assault rifle? By definition; military use. I believe if you join the military they will issue you those. So why do you want to own an assault rifle?

 

[KEW]

To me, it's not a matter of eliminating guns. The real question is how much killing power are we willing to allow any given individual to legally possess?
I don't see any reason for the high capacity magazines and armor piercing, rapid fire weapons at large in our society.
I would feel better if we limited to the six shooters of the old west!
I think the rifles from this period Would probably be reasonable as well.
But I don't think I'd want Gatling guns in the hands of just anyone.

 

[panteragstk]

$90k engines. . . . that kind of makes my point

200 mph in 6 seconds. It's been done ad nauseam. That's the predictable part. The other predictable part is what the end result is going to be because the computer will tell you pretty much what it's going to be. It's been done to death, just like assault rifles.

The nads it takes to drive a car 200 mph in 6 seconds? It takes nads to drive in rush hour on our interstate system with cell phone drivers these days, if you have any sense. It may take nads, but it's a choice of an adrenaline junkie. They don't 'have' to do that.

I own a hot rod and have owned others in my past, including a stage 3, CB 750 (1000 cc) Honda motorcycle. Plus an H2 750 triple Kawasaki that I spent rebuilding from a basket case in my bedroom for a year. My 70 Bronco Sport, has a pre-smog (now 10.5:1 because I had to use it for work for 11 years) 351c. All rebuilt and blueprinted by me, as was the top loader 4spd (they never came with a 4 spd) that's in it, including the custom shift linkages for the Hurst super shifter 2. The Nodular 9" with the 40 spline axles and suspension was set up by me.

I have also fab'd and repaired a lot of stuff for go-fast marine teams. Drag boats, hydros, offshore, you name it. I've Siamese'd together FI velocity stacks, all kinds of plumbing for turbos and blowers, intercoolers, sump tanks, roll cages and have pretty much seen it all by now.

Still, I find all this purified and sterilized crap boring and predictable. I can't help it. It tries too hard, just to end up being more of the same. That's pretty much exactly the way I feel about assault styled weapons.

The Sharps rifle, or an Ithaca Damascus Dbl barrel, now those are works of mechanical art.

If I had the experience you do with cars/boats/motors I'd be a bit board with the modern stuff too.

Nice bronco BTW. 351c is a great motor (not that I have to tell you that).

 

[slipperybidness]

CLICK

Who said I didn't? It's up to you to prove the positive, if you indeed support it. I can't defend a negative.

Do you feel like your claims have too much heat? Pity...

You asked the question in the title, "
Why do you want to own an Assault Rifle?"

I gave an answer. I'm not out to prove anything. I don't have to prove a WANT!

I ask the question back to you in a different form, and I get no valid response.

 

[TheWarrior]

That statement, I can't argue with.

However, the actions of someone else has nothing to do with MY actions.

I would never consider a rifle for home defense! That is just silly, a short tactical shotgun is much more ideal for home defense. Use the right tool for the job.

Common sense is the least common of all the senses.

Thankfully, yours seems to be intact!

We have to stop allowing people to own weapons that either are, or are easily modified to be genuine assault rifles. I'm glad you agree that really any type of rifle is pretty useless for home defense, unless you intend to shoot someone running away, in the back.

Ever met a Reconnaissance or Scout Sniper Marine? They both have to undergo reconditioning for civilian life after their tours of duty. Not sure I still have the book, but the LINE (Linear In-fighting Neural-override Engagement) defense system was designed to turn these tactics in to normal reactions. You don't quietly walk up behind these people and tap them on the shoulder, I've seen what happens. Thankfully, there was no permanent injury.

But my point in bringing that up is that some gun aficionado's fancy themselves as their own 'assault force' because the weapon they own makes them feel that powerful. And we saw the devastation this week, that those weapons can bring. The training involved also requires similar reactionary elements, that civilians cannot or should not be trained in.

Want self defense? Krav Maga is your answer! Israeli's had to develop this system so that 70 year olds down to children could defend themselves, because half the world seems to want to end Israel.

Fist fighting is for fools, and the majority of fights end up on the ground anyway, so elements of grappling are involved too. Once you've committed those tactics to muscle memory, it is far too easy to critically injure the fairly frail human body. It's a pretty good lesson in respect!

And it also gives you the knowledge of what to do when your enemy is too close for a gun.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Well, now I think I may love you.

Get a room.

 

[GO-NAD!]

...

Want self defense? Krav Maga is your answer! Israeli's had to develop this system so that 70 year olds down to children could defend themselves, because half the world seems to want to end Israel.

Fist fighting is for fools, and the majority of fights end up on the ground anyway, so elements of grappling are involved too. Once you've committed those tactics to muscle memory, it is far too easy to critically injure the fairly frail human body. It's a pretty good lesson in respect!
...

This is an interesting system, as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defendo

 

[ATLAudio]

You asked the question in the title, "
Why do you want to own an Assault Rifle?"

I gave an answer. I'm not out to prove anything. I don't have to prove a WANT!

I ask the question back to you in a different form, and I get no valid response.

Which I explained why, I can’t prove a negative. I have no idea why someone would want an assault rifle. So I’m seeking reasons for why someone would want one. You’re only seeking to shift burden of proof, while leaving most of my questions unanswered. Again, can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

[ATLAudio]

You asked the question in the title, "
Why do you want to own an Assault Rifle?"

I gave an answer. I'm not out to prove anything. I don't have to prove a WANT!

I ask the question back to you in a different form, and I get no valid response.

If you don’t want to answer the question or “prove a want” then why are you here? If you think your reasons are justified, and refuse to answer my follow up questions, which you did, then that’s fine. Just don’t expect much else, especially your desperate attempt to turn the heat off your poor argument.