Incorporating MiniDSP With Audyssey XT32

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Hey J. You should set your vertical from 45-105 for a 60db window. I think it's more accurate.(also the REW help files mention this too). Anyway, not sure if the shallower roll off is a tuning change, but it looks significant to me. More interesting is the trough from above 50-90hz. To me it's deep enough and wide enough to be an issue, since that's an important frequency range. Especially at a 12db difference. To me since the XO is 80hz, you have a phase issue. Since the subs are gain matched you might try adding and subtracting a foot at a time in the avr and measuring again. If you add feet in the avr it will shorten the delay time to the sub signal and A) possibly level out the trough, and B) improve impulse response. Maybe...
It's not a tuning thing. The post with the graphs I explained how I repositioned my main speakers and subs. I think getting my speakers further from the wall took car of some of those issues. I'm going to continue playing with placement. I think if I get my speakers to play as close to flat in direct mode, the better correction I'll get from audyssey.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Hey J. You should set your vertical from 45-105 for a 60db window. I think it's more accurate.(also the REW help files mention this too). Anyway, not sure if the shallower roll off is a tuning change, but it looks significant to me. More interesting is the trough from above 50-90hz. To me it's deep enough and wide enough to be an issue, since that's an important frequency range. Especially at a 12db difference. To me since the XO is 80hz, you have a phase issue. Since the subs are gain matched you might try adding and subtracting a foot at a time in the avr and measuring again. If you add feet in the avr it will shorten the delay time to the sub signal and A) possibly level out the trough, and B) improve impulse response. Maybe...
I just read the other half of your post! :p

I'm going to try that like, right now Liam.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I think William is correct. Now that's not absolutely certain, but if that is in fact a phase induced notch, you should be able to make it go away. (Kudos on being able to actually have a phase notch show up in your measurements, as it's most often obscured by modal response with 'in-room' measurements from the listening position. The close proximity of your subs to mains, and having a couple of subs for modal smoothing may account for being able to actually measure it. You're in the home stretch with this.)

That sort of notch will appear if the hp and lp are slope and level matched but 180 degrees out of phase. If the subs have a simple two position phase switch, take a measurement with it toggled to the other setting first, before changing sub distance in the AVR. If that does not reduce or eliminate the notch, then do as William suggested and add distance incrementally and re-assess until you get there.

If you can make the notch go away by adjusting the phase/distance settings, next look at impulse response. You'll find that you will get flat freq response, but the impulse response will likely be off, a full cycle or an integer multiple of that at the crossover frequency, which is more than a simple polarity switch on a sub can accommodate. You can then use the AVR distance settings, which can accommodate this, to restore or achieve optimal impulse response; it may help you dial in impulse response to add distance to the mains rather than to the subs depending on which, hp or lp is leading. The distances you set in the AVR may have no relation to actual distances in your room, or they may. Trust the measurements when doing this.

You get all that taken care of and you'll start to notice more resolution and detail in the critical mid-bass band than you realized was possible.

Excellent progress, Pogre!
Thank you! I'm going to try this before I try Liam's suggestion. You guys are giving me hope here! :D
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
One was DEQ on and one was DEQ off.
That's how I read it, and is probably the reason for the better extension, but I wasn't sure if it was deq, or one port open tuning.
Me:doh! Just read your updates...
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
It's not a tuning thing. The post with the graphs I explained how I repositioned my main speakers and subs. I think getting my speakers further from the wall took car of some of those issues. I'm going to continue playing with placement. I think if I get my speakers to play as close to flat in direct mode, the better correction I'll get from audyssey.
I believe that's correct. Placement 1st, Treatment 2nd and EQ last if you can help it.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
More measurements!

Phase Overlay.jpg

Here's an overlay with the 2 different phase settings. Listening to it, with having to get up, switch both subs and jump over the audio measurement obstacle course I have in the living room I'm hard pressed to hear a difference, but I *think* phase 0 sounds best. I'm not sure how to interpret the 2 measurements in this overlay, but I do hear that difference in volume on the bottom end.

I'll do some impulse measurements now with the phase back to 0.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Omg. I didn't have 1 speaker on for the phase measurement overlays! :eek:

Half way through some new ones...

/facepalm
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Wakey wakey pogey!!!!
Don't feel bad, I've done dumber...
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Okay! This overlay is accurate. I had everything right for all previous measurements. It was just that last chart.

Sub Phase Overlay.jpg


I'll say again that I think phase 0 sounds better. @William Lemmerhirt, I changed the vertical axis to what you suggested, I think? Is that right? It sure looks prettier that way... :p
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Fwiw, I've been in conversations where the recommendation is to measure only one "main", or center with the subs. Since most material won't have exactly the same content at the same time from both mains, the idea is to eliminate comb filtering by using only one speaker. Just different schools of thought. It would likely show up I believe though.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Fwiw, I've been in conversations where the recommendation is to measure only one "main", or center with the subs. Since most material won't have exactly the same content at the same time from both mains, the idea is to eliminate comb filtering by using only one speaker. Just different schools of thought. It would likely show up I believe though.
That scale seems a little tight, doesn't it? Or is 5db too loose and 10 is the norm? Did I do it right? I'm still half lost with this crap.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Okay! This overlay is accurate. I had everything right for all previous measurements. It was just that last chart.

View attachment 21975

I'll say again that I think phase 0 sounds better. @William Lemmerhirt, I changed the vertical axis to what you suggested, I think? Is that right? It sure looks prettier that way... :p
Not surprising, the graph is better at 0.
I will have to look for the exact reason why(since I'm not a professional lol) but iirc the 60db window represents how we hear. Similar to using 1/6 smoothing vs higher smoothing levels.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Not surprising, the graph is better at 0.
I will have to look for the exact reason why(since I'm not a professional lol) but iirc the 60db window represents how we hear. Similar to using 1/6 smoothing vs higher smoothing levels.
Ah. What I did was average 6 measurements around the mlp and used 1/12 smoothing. Oh, and changed the vertical axis.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Okay! This overlay is accurate. I had everything right for all previous measurements. It was just that last chart.

View attachment 21975

I'll say again that I think phase 0 sounds better. @William Lemmerhirt, I changed the vertical axis to what you suggested, I think? Is that right? It sure looks prettier that way... :p
Phase 0 should sound better since it doesn't have that large dip from 90-110hz.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Ah. What I did was average 6 measurements around the mlp and used 1/12 smoothing. Oh, and changed the vertical axis.
If you really want to get nasty, take the smoothing off. Then you can really split hairs! :Won't be long, minidsp package is shredded!!!
 
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