Incorporating MiniDSP With Audyssey XT32

[Pogre]

Good...so the poking around was worth while.

I missed a few posts...how did you arrive at this point in bold? Direct? placement?

Changing nothing. This isn't about fixing something that's bad, it's taking something very good and shooting for near perfect. I have time on my hands and stuff Iike this is fun for me. It keeps me busy and I'm learning more. I love learning new stuff about the things I'm passionate for.

I have a minidsp I bought months ago and haven't even opened the box. If it's not too difficult I might just try to incorporate it and see if I can hit that near perfection I'm obsessing over. If it looks too complicated or compromises something then I'm still happy with what I have.

 

[Pogre]

Unless tower and sub are very close to each other (which might be a problem in itself) you would want to eq sub section and sub separately, right?

I think that's what he's getting at with bi amping while still using the speaker's passive crossovers. I could dial in the gain on the sub section of my speakers without affecting my subwoofers, mids or highs.

 

[PENG]

Perhaps I don't follow... Are you asking if it's possible to EQ only the sub with REW/MiniDSP? If so, that's the only way I ever do it.

I plan on using the pramp's subout (can be set to full range) to the mini's input so the mini will affect the sub only. In you case you said you still use Audyssey after minidsp so I assume the mindsp will affect the sub and the mains, no?

 

[ATLAudio]

I plan on using the pramp's subout (can be set to full range) to the mini's input so the mini will affect the sub only. In you case you said you still use Audyssey after minidsp so I assume the mindsp will affect the sub and the mains, no?

No, I use the miniDSP for the sub only. In effect I'm giving Audyssey an "easier job," which it in turn gives me a better correction.

 

[2channel lover]

Changing nothing. This isn't about fixing something that's bad, it's taking something very good and shooting for near perfect. I have time on my hands and stuff Iike this is fun for me. It keeps me busy and I'm learning more. I love learning new stuff about the things I'm passionate for.

I have a minidsp I bought months ago and haven't even opened the box. If it's not too difficult I might just try to incorporate it and see if I can hit that near perfection I'm obsessing over. If it looks too complicated or compromises something then I'm still happy with what I have.

Got it...I've done the same as far as playing in direct mode, tinkering. On my Oppo there is a lot being made of the analog stereo circuit...it's very good, but some music actually sounds better via the hdmi connection.

 

[ski2xblack]

You can INCREASE and DECREASE the VOLUME of the woofers like you can with a separate subwoofer.

Sure, you can, and by doing so you'll change the effective crossover frequency and mess up integration between the drivers. That may not matter if all you want is simply and crudely 'MOAR BASS!' But the point I'm trying to make is that being able to adjust an amp to different levels for bass drivers does not magically sidestep the requirements of crossovers, be they between tweets and mid-woofs or between mains and subs. It does, though, introduce a route to messing things up. I strongly feel that Pogre should skip passive bi-amping of his towers in his system tuning endeavors.

 

[PENG]

Sure, you can, and by doing so you'll change the effective crossover frequency and mess up integration between the drivers. That may not matter if all you want is simply and crudely 'MOAR BASS!' But the point I'm trying to make is that being able to adjust an amp to different levels for bass drivers does not magically sidestep the requirements of crossovers, be they between tweets and mid-woofs or between mains and subs. It does, though, introduce a route to messing things up. I strongly feel that Pogre should skip passive bi-amping in his system tuning endeavors.

Passive biamping, if done correctly, should not mess up the crossovers because it is using the same crossover network that gets separated into 2 such that overall it should work the same way. Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing.

 

[PENG]

No, I use the miniDSP for the sub only. In effect I'm giving Audyssey an "easier job," which it in turn gives me a better correction.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[ski2xblack]

Passive biamping, if done correctly, should not mess up the crossovers because it is using the same crossover network that gets separated into 2 such that overall it should work the same way. Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing.

Yeah, perhaps you're correct Peng. This is a learning opportunity for me, so let's look further.

If one arbitrarily boosts the low pass part of the above idealized graph, will the new, boosted signal have the same slope? It should, it's going through the same inductor and other passive bits after all. Will the f3 be the same frequency? I'm not really sure, but if it's not, at least relative to the hp signal, then the lp and hp won't sum flat.

Anywho, I still feel that tweaking sub amps, or the amps used for passive bi-amping of speakers, seems like a really expensive and potentially problematic method to affect tonal changes, which is better done upstream by tone controls and eq. Setting up crossovers between subs and mains is fundamental to system setup, and should be "set and forget" once accomplished, for optimal freq and impulse response. Once you have that, then eq to taste.

 

[panteragstk]

If he were to by amp the mains instead of using a sub amp, why not just use the two channels of his Monolith that he isn't using? Then in theory he could get a y adapter for his two sub outputs and use one for the subs and the other for the mains. Then use the minidsp on either or none. Re-run audyssey and see what happens.

I'd do it. Sounds neat.

 

[ski2xblack]

If you feel that the chief speaker engineers of RBH and NHT don't know what they are doing in regards to this, then that's your prerogative.

What? Sorry, bra, I refuse to get into some sort of pissing match with you about this. I have said nothing that contradicts basic filter theory, but I don't know everything and am here to learn while we discuss Pogre's system (not yours, not RBH, or anything else you hold dear...start your own thread if you want to push gear you're a sales rep for).

If you can answer the question I asked in my previous post, go for it. Here's my take, fwiw:

The f3 will be at the exact same frequency, as nothing has changed that would alter that, and the results of boost would be like so (and @PENG, this should contextualize what I was asking about):

This applies if we're talking sub/main crossover, as pictured, or a mid-woof/tweet crossover in a passive bi-amped setup. Even if those boosted bass plots did manage somehow, miraculously, to sum reasonably smoothly (fat chance), it would exhibit a significant shelf at frequencies below that, which is a problem in itself. I prefer a smooth 'house curve' at the main listening position, not some boomy shelved bass response. But that's just me.

 

[KEW]

Enjoying this thread, and might actually learn a few things along the way!

 

[Pogre]

Enjoying this thread, and might actually learn a few things along the way!

Me too! I'm learning a lot already.

I'm standing by with my mini, mic and REW. I have a receiver and a separate 7 channel amp so I can actually passively bi amp. I'm not sure how I would adjust the gain separately for the woofer section tho, unless that's where a mini might come in?

 

[Andrein]

Pogre, did you try to swap sub and svs positions? I dont remember which is closer to the center in your case.

 

[Pogre]

Pogre, did you try to swap sub and svs positions? I dont remember which is closer to the center in your case.

I did with the bookshelves. I think I would have to lug two 85lb subs all over the place looking for the right spot(s) and/or my 75lb towers. I'll most likely be solo on this and both aren't only heavy, but awkward.

I have 18" on the left where the sliding glass door is and the front door is to the right with a little foyer/cubby at the entrance when you walk in. I definitely can't spread things out any further. Just scrunch in.

 

[lovinthehd]

The whole passive biamp thing with the bass driver in a tower simply seems a waste of time (even if it is truly independent) unless perhaps you had no subs, but just seems too complicated with actual subs in the mix....

 

[Pogre]

I think I'm gonna move the subs out of there tomorrow, recalibrate with Audyssey and take some more measurements. I'll try to do it first thing tomorrow when I can get my noise floor down to ~ -70db.

 

[Pogre]

The whole passive biamp thing with the bass driver in a tower simply seems a waste of time (even if it is truly independent) unless perhaps you had no subs, but just seems too complicated with actual subs in the mix....

I'm tending to think that way also, but it'll make for some good discussion, I think,
and I'm curious to hear some more from the big brains. I'm gonna bust out the 25' rca, get some sliders and move those subs around tomorrow. I really would like to find a spot where they aren't right up against the towers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

How about moving the LP a little bit?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm tending to think that way also, but it'll make for some good discussion, I think,
and I'm curious to hear some more from the big brains. I'm gonna bust out the 25' rca, get some sliders and move those subs around tomorrow. I really would like to find a spot where they aren't right up against the towers.

Sure, you have/and can spend the time for the various combos but....