Upgrade Recommendations?

[ryouiki]

That sounds about right. I wouldn't worry too much about exact matching unless you are planning on reference level listening, but you do want some parity between output and input ranges. Why do you want XLR cables though? They won't help anything unless you are doing long cable runs.

Yeah no, never listen at reference... things start getting too loud to me at -20 to -15 (I actually have the volume limiter set at -20 unless I'm measuring things).

As for the XLR it isn't like have to use them... but since pre-pro, amp, and subs have the ability and they are relatively cheap to make, don't see any particular reason to not use them over unbalanced. On the plus side they lock (well not on the subs), and they are easier to plug/unplug compared to figuring out which one of the tightly spaced 40 RCA's on the back of the pre-pro I'm aiming for

 

[lovinthehd]

Bah I went ahead and just ordered it. Is loveinthehd still around (or did I run him off)?

Trying to make sure I understand the gain structure involved here... while I would have to measure it myself to be sure, someone else with same/similar pre-pro posted values coming out of this thing.

XLR's at reference level signal/volume with 0 trims was putting out 3.9V on the subwoofer output, so I assume the miniDSP should be jumpered to 4V at input to prevent from over driving it.

I'm still tuned in. The Audyssey thing is usually you set delays/eq with the minidsp then still run Audyssey; I'd think if you did Audyssey separately without subs then it would be trying to eq your specific speakers rather than the subs in that range.

I think you're overthinking the gain structure, though.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm not sure I'm with you on why you changed the delay on one sub to match physical distance? Or am I misunderstanding? Where were the two subs in relation to the MLP and each other when you did that?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I'm not sure I'm with you on why you changed the delay on one sub to match physical distance? Or am I misunderstanding? Where were the two subs in relation to the MLP and each other when you did that?

I agree. If audyssey sets the distance, it's how it measures it and how it sees the room. It's normally right.

 

[ryouiki]

I'm not sure I'm with you on why you changed the delay on one sub to match physical distance? Or am I misunderstanding? Where were the two subs in relation to the MLP and each other when you did that?

After spending like 5 hours measuring positions, I ended up moving one sub to front left corner, and one to about 1/2 to 1/3 of the right wall... those positions if you lined up/averaged the graphs "worked together" the best, where one peak is partially offset by another null etc. I tried many locations along the back wall, but it was a total mess when measured.

The distances set by Audyssey were approximately 9'7" and 12'5". This however caused some oddities like seen in post #59. Physical distance from driver to MLP is roughly to 6'6" and 11'2" (I might be somewhat off here, hard to measure this completely accurately without moving chairs etc.)

Increasing relative distance between them by 2-3 feet (i.e. I just adding or subtracting distance from one sub or the other) smooths things back out.

That said, I am new to all of this, so that is probably not the "right" thing to do...

 

[shadyJ]

the 'right' thing to do is to get a flat response, or better yet, whatever sounds best to your ears. And I doubt that a distance difference of such a small amount will be a bid deal. Can you post your present response? And how does it sound?

 

[ryouiki]

Compared to not modifying the distances, it sounds "better"... it is pretty obvious just listening to the sweeps that just based on what Audyssey sets there is a sudden gap/"suckout" which is partially alleviated by tweaking that setting.

I'll see if I saved a mdat with the final curve, it was still pretty lopsided depending on the reference point... i.e. either you have a -3db null with +6db peaks, or you have a -6db null depending on how you look at it.

That is one of the things I am not clear on when it comes to miniDSP, when you are generating the filters from REW it wants to know your "target" SPL... some of the examples show that they are setting that target at near their bottom of the curve... this results in a much flatter response, but then all of their filtering is very large cuts, i.e. -10db or more.

 

[shadyJ]

I'll see if I saved a mdat with the final curve, it was still pretty lopsided depending on the reference point... i.e. either you have a -3db null with +6db peaks, or you have a -6db null depending on how you look at it.

Is that pre equalization or post equalization? If that is pre-equalization, it won't be hard to get a good response.

 

[ryouiki]

Is that pre equalization or post equalization? If that is pre-equalization, it won't be hard to get a good response.

I measured with Audyssey off, I haven't been using it since I did my last set of tweaks... if it is trying to correct the pre distance tweaking then it is up to no good, and sadly they don't seem to show curve corrections for the subwoofer channels. miniDSP is supposed to be here Thursday so I'll set aside time to set everything up again on Friday (gotta drag boom mic stand, etc. out of storage closet again), and take some more sweeps.

The only mdat I apparently saved from from the last set of tweaking was the two subs measured individually so that isn't much help.

 

[shadyJ]

I see. You should be able to get a very good response in the end, in that case.

 

[ryouiki]

I see. You should be able to get a very good response in the end, in that case.

Okay, miniDSP arrived... spent a few hours with it, and definately seems like Audyssey is just having some type of measurement issue... when run both subs off a single input, and manually adjusting delays, things look MUCH MUCH better.

At any rate, I tweaked things with miniDSP making some cuts here/there, and then ran a 3 point Audyssey measurement just to check results (will have to take a 8 pt. later). Here is what it looks like now:

I still have to tweak what REW is sending it, since it is trying to roll off slightly earlier then I would like, but I won't have any more time today to mess around with it.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hey, that looks pretty damn good! Did you do any sweeps with the mains? Curious how smooth they transition, and how hot the subs are. Looks like a nice house curve!

 

[shadyJ]

That response looks very good. It looks like +/- 3 dB from 20 Hz to 80 Hz. What are the settings on the sub? With that response, I would run the Q control at 0.3 and and the operation mode at EQ2, if it isn't at those settings already. That will bring down some of that low and a bit to make it more even with the mid bass.

 

[ryouiki]

Hey, that looks pretty damn good! Did you do any sweeps with the mains? Curious how smooth they transition, and how hot the subs are. Looks like a nice house curve!

I ran a single full sweep, but I haven't really looked at it much yet... the subs are actually not running very hot at the moment, I may end up adding 3db or more over what Audyssey wants. I just have to go back with DMM and do some measuring... miniDSP came pre-jumpered at 4v/4v, but I measured the sub channel at reference volume/reference signal/zero trims to peak at almost 8v. Granted I will never playback at that volume anyway... I would prefer to keep my hearing intact as much as I can

That response looks very good. It looks like +/- 3 dB from 20 Hz to 80 Hz. What are the settings on the sub? With that response, I would run the Q control at 0.3 and and the operation mode at EQ2, if it isn't at those settings already. That will bring down some of that low and a bit to make it more even with the mid bass.

Right now they are in EQ1. Maybe for someone room-gain comes into effect, but in this room there is pretty much none to be had... either that or I would need many more of them I think I measured -10 db by mid 30's with them in EQ2. I think the concern was excursion in EQ1, but at my listening volume the driver isn't even visibly moving unless it gets down below 18hz. I would have probably been better off with ported model to go deeper, but I'm pretty happy where things stand.

I just need to figure out how to further tune the target curve REW is generating... I think it is being slightly too aggressive. I did not allow it to do any boosting, but the cuts seems to be somewhat overkill.

 

[ryouiki]

Hey, that looks pretty damn good! Did you do any sweeps with the mains? Curious how smooth they transition, and how hot the subs are. Looks like a nice house curve!

I did more playing around today to tighten things up slightly. This is the full range sweep with different settings (funny to actually see what Dynamic EQ does), and snapshot of lower frequencies. I had to adjust sub woofer distance in prepro by about 4 feet to make them lineup properly.

There is 1/12 smoothing which is covering up that null @ 90 seen in the previous graphs, but not something I can appear to address without throwing everything else off. I am adding back about 3db of trim to the subs after Audyssey sets the levels.

 

[shadyJ]

There is 1/12 smoothing which is covering up that null @ 90 seen in the previous graphs, but not something I can appear to address without throwing everything else off. I am adding back about 3db of trim to the subs after Audyssey sets the levels.

If 1/12 octave smoothing is enough to cover up that null, than it is likely a high enough Q dip that it would scarcely be noticed by human hearing anyway. You have a great response, and now the thing to do is sit back and enjoy your system. That is a very good response.

 

[ryouiki]

If 1/12 octave smoothing is enough to cover up that null, than it is likely a high enough Q dip that it would scarcely be noticed by human hearing anyway. You have a great response, and now the thing to do is sit back and enjoy your system. That is a very good response.

I'm definitely going to enjoy it now... I could obsess over more tweaking, but that would never end

I really appreciate all the help/recommendations from everyone in this thread. Hopefully I didn't drive you all crazy in the process