Upgrade Recommendations?

[ryouiki]

Agree with Hd here.
Once you experience a real subwoofer(not a dig on yours), you'll know that deep linear bass is like nothing else. The devil is in the details and one place where great subs shine is ironically in their subtlety. Pitch definition, and nuanced bass is just not gonna come out of the klipschs. And believe it or not, 24hz is way too high to roll off an HT subwoofer. You mentioned not having a feel for subs like the HSU's. Once you do you'll see what I mean. Ironically you'll be able to have the couch shaking, but not need to have it cranked.

I bought the Klipsch only as a stop gap since previous sub died, and at the time the rest of the setup wasn't worth much either, so paying 2x the amount for subwoofers vs. the speakers didn't seem to make sense at the time.

Now that everything else is multiple steps up, I figure it was worth investing into better subs

I guess that leaves it down to choice of sealed vs ported at this point... I may have to order both and eat the shipping charges to send one back to be really sure.

 

[shadyJ]

I guess that leaves it down to choice of sealed vs ported at this point... I may have to order both and eat the shipping charges to send one back to be really sure.

The Hsu VTF subwoofers do sealed as well as ported, which is why I recommended them. You get both in one subwoofer.

 

[ryouiki]

Well after discussing it with them on the phone, and stressing myself out over it way too long, I pulled the trigger on 2x ULS15mk2's.

I had talked to few other manufacturers who had also recommended sealed for my use case, but I guess I will have to wait and see if that was the right decision.

 

[shadyJ]

Nice choice! Make some in-room measurements of the subs in both their EQ1 mode and EQ2 mode. I much prefer the EQ2 mode myself. If you can post the measurements here, I would be curious to see how they differ from the Klipsch measurements. Remember you can always fine tune the response with something like the miniDSP.

 

[ryouiki]

Will do, I will take some measurements once they get here

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Congrats!!! Buckle up!

 

[ryouiki]

Shipping puts them here the middle/end of next week.

In the interim, I have bought some very long/cheap XLR cables so I can move them around as much as possible to find the best positioning. The one thing I don't quite understand is how to determine that vs. the listening position.

It seems to me the MLP/subwoofer position are directly related to each other, so if you move one you are also affecting the other one at least in some form or fashion. Even with the REW measurements, having the microphone off a few inches here/there between measurements is causing different results.

Is there a optimal method to figuring out MLP first? Just based on current subwoofers, it seems moving the MLP about 6-7 inches back is beneficial, but at the same time I have to wrestle with the fact the TV is moving further outside of optimal viewing range.

 

[shadyJ]

I would set the listening position to a spot where it works best for the TV or main speakers, and arrange the subs around that. Once you have determined the listening position, calibrate everything according to that spot. If the bass response isn't perfect, that is OK. Not everything is going to be perfect, and compromises have to be made somewhere.

 

[ryouiki]

I assume for minidsp I just need the 2x4 Advanced Plugin? Are you guys feeding the miniDSP the data from the REW EQ function?

 

[shadyJ]

I assume for minidsp I just need the 2x4 Advanced Plugin? Are you guys feeding the miniDSP the data from the REW EQ function?

Yeah, you need the REW Integration plug-in to EQ the subs with miniDSP and REW. Here is a application note on how to do it.

 

[ryouiki]

Thanks, their descriptions of the plugins are clear as mud... had to open up multiple PDFs and look at them side by side to determine what the differences where, and then it seemed like 2 of the plugins were made redundant by the third one.

On the positive side, it seems the subs will arrive tomorrow... I'm afraid to look outside in case hell has actually frozen over... FedEx NEVER delivers things that quickly, let alone 160lbs worth. Now I can only hope they didn't decide to use the boxes as wheel chocks for their semi or something... the last few shipments I have received from them look like they misunderstood what "air freight" meant, and actually ejected them out of the aircraft while still in flight.

 

[ryouiki]

One does not get a sense of how big a "small" 15 inch cabinet is until you place it next to the old sub

I still have to lug the other one up a flight of stairs and unpack it, hopefully I can take some measurements later in the week.

 

[shadyJ]

My suggestions are to run the ULS-15 mk2 in EQ2 mode, and maybe a Q control setting of 0.5.

 

[ryouiki]

I really despise Audyssey sometimes... ran it to find correct levels on the sub, and the sub doesn't do anything anymore... took me 5 minutes in the menu to realize that after running it 10 times with the exact same speakers, it now decides for the first time that my mains are full range

This pre-pro must run a really hot signal though, to get Audyssey to stop complaining the sub level is too high, I have to run the "volume" control at the first mark past minimum (< 1/4 volume).

 

[lovinthehd]

I really despise Audyssey sometimes... ran it to find correct levels on the sub, and the sub doesn't do anything anymore... took me 5 minutes in the menu to realize that after running it 10 times with the exact same speakers, it now decides for the first time that my mains are full range

This pre-pro must run a really hot signal though, to get Audyssey to stop complaining the sub level is too high, I have to run the "volume" control at the first mark past minimum (< 1/4 volume).

I think you're possibly overreacting myself. You may need a reset to overcome the first sub levels set if it doesn't ask you to run the test again. Audyssey would never set your mains to full range with the use of the subs, that's the avr manufacturer overriding Audyssey recommendations. Most likely your avr has plenty of signal for a typical consumer sub (if the consumer sub did their homework well); not unusual on my subs to set the gain that low in any case.

 

[ryouiki]

Your are correct... bad wording on my part; it is the Marantz that is making that decision... not a good one in my opinion (FL/FR claim -3db at 38Hz, but reality it is more like 50). Anyway once I reverted them back to "Small" everything is working as expected... just not sure why this is the first time it decided they were "Large"... but who knows.

I re-ran full calibration per HSU recommendations with EQ1 and Q at 0.7 (Dr Hsu posted elsewhere that this was about wanting to run Audyssey with sub in flattest operating mode, so it doesn't try to over-correct the other EQ modes).

For now, I'll have to live with what it came up with until later this week when I don't have house guests/can do calibration/sweeps at night when there is minimal noise.

I should probably add, these are quite impressive to look at, the finish is way better in person then photos make it out to be... if I had to be very nitpicky there are a few blemishes that look like dirt worked it way into the paint, but you listen to subwoofers not look at them

 

[ryouiki]

Well I managed to fiddle around with placement/some measurements today... not quite sure what to make of this.

For the most reasonably flat response, they ended up around 1/4 wall when measured individually. When they are both run together, they appear to be cancelling each other out??? depending on where the phase switch is set (i.e. I get a fairly large null that moves around depending on how I fiddle with the phase).

Should I just try to co-locate them?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

How did you determine a null. REW, spl meter, just walking around etc.

 

[ryouiki]

How did you determine a null. REW, spl meter, just walking around etc.

REW. Power one off, take measurement, swap power to the other one, take a measurement, power them both on and take a measurement. The dip shown here at 40-50 can be shifted around by playing with phase controls.

 

[shadyJ]

REW. Power one off, take measurement, swap power to the other one, take a measurement, power them both on and take a measurement. The dip shown here at 40-50 can be shifted around by playing with phase controls.

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With your subwoofer placement, with subs on opposite sides of the room with the listener in the middle, its not surprising that you get that kind of cancellation with two subs. You are sitting in the middle of two equal pressure wave generators, and that could make for some severe interference patterns. That 50 Hz centered dip is a problem. Of those curves, the red one is the best, since the cancellations occur above the crossover point (assuming you will be using a 80 Hz crossover).

Is there any other locations that you can try one of the subs in? perhaps a near-field location, like right behind the seat?