Upgrading Subwoofers

[Pogre]

I'm just feeling around right now and am not in a hurry, but wanted to start getting some ideas. I know of most of the top manufacturers (Hsu, SVS, Rythmik, etc.), but have little experience listening to any of them but SVS.

I currently own a pair of SVS SB1000s and would like to get something with a little more mid bass presence and a little more extension. Right now I'm looking at the SB2000 and think it would fit the bill with a larger cabinet and beefier driver and amp. Plus it's actually attainable budget-wise for me. I would prefer to stay with a sealed sub. My question is are there better deals for the same performance from the other guys?

I'm partial to SVS but I'm not married to them. I'm definitely open to other suggestions. From what I've been reading here Hsu sounds like they might offer the best price/performance ratio.

 

[lovinthehd]

For Hsu, you mean the ULS-15 (sealed) or are you including VTF (vented) models? Then again, building your own sealed sub is fairly easy

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Not sure how big your space is but the sb2k is a great little subwoofer. Definitely not for large spaces though. I'm a ported guy myself. It seems you're right about the good doctor "shoe" and it seems a really good cost to benefit ratio. I personally have been sold on the servo by rythmik so I'd say start there.


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[Pogre]

For Hsu, you mean the ULS-15 (sealed) or are you including VTF (vented) models? Then again, building your own sealed sub is fairly easy

Heh. I saw you posted and knew diy would be a suggestion. I'm open to it, but I'd be an enormous pain in the ass with a lot of rudimentary questions. I'd need a lot of help. Incorporating a DAC and getting it tuned, finding the drivers and the right amp... I'd be starting from ground zero with no previous knowledge. It's a little intimidating.

 

[lovinthehd]

Heh. I saw you posted and knew diy would be a suggestion. I'm open to it, but I'd be an enormous pain in the ass with a lot of rudimentary questions. I'd need a lot of help. Incorporating a DAC and getting it tuned, finding the drivers and the right amp... I'd be starting from ground zero with no previous knowledge. It's a little intimidating.

Couldn't let you down....

Incorporating a dac? Why? You mean dsp?

Consider this driver/flatpack combo for a start....

ps With the right choice of amp you can easily add another driver/flatpack with no additional amp needed....that's where the economies of diy start to shine....

 

[Pogre]

Couldn't let you down....

Incorporating a dac? Why? You mean dsp?

Consider this driver/flatpack combo for a start....

ps With the right choice of amp you can easily add another driver/flatpack with no additional amp needed....that's where the economies of diy start to shine....

Yes. dsp. See?

I really like the flat packs. those look very, very doable to me. We started down this road once, then I found my first SB1000 for 250 bucks and jumped on that instead. I'm probably gonna need some measuring equipment, a mic and some schooling to do this right, if I'm not mistaken. I definitely want to stick with dual subs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes. dsp. See?

I really like the flat packs. those look very, very doable to me. We started down this road once, then I found my first SB1000 for 250 bucks and jumped on that instead. I'm probably gonna need some measuring equipment, a mic and some schooling to do this right, if I'm not mistaken. I definitely want to stick with dual subs.

I forget which avr you have, but if you have Audyssey it can do a very decent job of handling a sealed sub eq without an external unit, although a minidsp 2x4 HD would be better (and measurement mic/REW software to go with it). Dayton UMM-6 or the minidsp UMIK-1 are good choices. You need a minimum of tools to assemble the flatpack....got a drill/driver to make holes for the terminal? Clamps are nice but people have been known to assemble these flatpacks with simple painters tape to hold things together while the glue sets up....finishing for WAF is usually a bigger challenge

 

[Pogre]

I have a Denon with Audyssey MultEQ XT, so if that's sufficient it'll take some pressure off the project and my wallet. I have the basic tools necessary and even have at least 1 large clamp.

How about that driver that comes with the flat pack? I know nothing about it. If you're suggesting it i'm assuming it's high quality. Would a pair of 15's be overkill for me? Will they be as detailed as the 12's I have now? And yes, I like the idea of a single outboard amp to drive both speakers. That is another cost saver.

A little more info: I sit about 14 feet from the front stage in a 16' x 30' room with another room (10' x 12' - no door) that opens up to the right. Plus there's a hallway and vaulted ceilings.

 

[shadyJ]

A dual flat pack UM-15 or a dual Hsu ULS-15 would both be great systems. If I were going to deal with flat packs I would get some clamps to set it so that none of the panels risk sliding out of place. You will definitely want to do something so that they are not just bare MDF boxes in your room. One thing I always thought would be interesting is, instead of a typical paint finish, use something like a laminate for counter tops. It would make for a nice look and be a much more durable finish. How about subs in a quartz finish? For a DSP, I would not want to rely on Audyssey. A miniDSP is nice, but you can get DSP functions in the amplifier. I would be looking at the iNukes with DSPs aboard. The Hsu ULS subs are really killer too, and if you would rather just have the subs instead of building them, they are among the best options.

 

[Pogre]

A dual flat pack UM-15 or a dual Hsu ULS-15 would both be great systems. If I were going to deal with flat packs I would get some clamps to set it so that none of the panels risk sliding out of place. You will definitely want to do something so that they are not just bare MDF boxes in your room. One thing I always thought would be interesting is, instead of a typical paint finish, use something like a laminate for counter tops. It would make for a nice look and be a much more durable finish. How about subs in a quartz finish? For a DSP, I would not want to rely on Audyssey. A miniDSP is nice, but you can get DSP functions in the amplifier. I would be looking at the iNukes with DSPs aboard. The Hsu ULS subs are really killer too, and if you would rather just have the subs instead of building them, they are among the best options.

Wish I had the skills for a nice piano gloss black finish. I don't think a laminate is a bad idea at all. It's something I'd have to do some homework on. Laminate is something that's easy to mess up from the looks of it.

They have some nice pics on that page of some beautiful wood finishes. I'm a butcher though, and purty furniture isn't in my current skillset. That's another reason I hesitate on diy.

 

[shadyJ]

A pair of ULS-15s wouldn't be a whole lot more expensive than a nicely finished pair of DIY subs, so if you don't trust yourself with getting a nice finish done, just get a couple Hsu subs. The performance difference between the SB1000s will be night and day. You could also just make the cabinet for the DIY subs and see if an auto painter will do an automotive grade paint job on them. That will not be cheap, but that would look nice and be very durable. How about a couple of subs in Ferrari Red?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

A little more info: I sit about 14 feet from the front stage in a 16' x 30' room with another room (10' x 12' - no door) that opens up to the right. Plus there's a hallway and vaulted ceilings.

I would say you should look at 15's. I sit in a 16x23 sunken LR connected to a 16x23 kitchen with a 12' vaulted ceiling connected to a foyer so maybe a little bigger than your room but in your space I wouldn't look at less than a pair of 15's


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[Pogre]

I really like the look of the ULS MK2. It's pretty compact for a 15' sub, and I know it's great bang for my buck, but that price tag for 2 of them... I know they're worth that and more. I just get sticker shock.

Really makes me want to go diy. Will the Dayton flat packs perform as well as a pair of Hsu or SVS if built right and I get the right amplifier? It looks like I could almost build 2 for the price of one from Hsu or SVS. I'm definitely swayed enough to know I might as well get a pair of 15's for my room if I upgrade. You guys convinced me. It is pretty big. I just worry that I might lose some speed and detail with the bigger woofers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Speed and detail are a function of a good design not a small or sealed subwoofer. The thing that might be trouble is blending with a higher XO but I didn't see that you said anything about that. I would also go ported. If you use the right subs there shouldn't be a penalty for big size or porting. That's a big space and you're looking at upgrading fairly new subs. Pretty sure you don't want to keep doing that! Lol


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[Matt05]

Just got my Uls 15 mk2 today

 

[Pogre]

I don't. This is turning into the last pair of subs I buy. The ones I have now sound great, but they're lacking in presence. You nailed it. I do not want to keep upgrading. I have a pair of SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers, so I would need the subs to play up to around that 80hz range pretty well for the crossover point?

Like I said, I'm in no big hurry so there's plenty of time. The purpose of this thread now, I think, is to end up with a complete parts list and plan for a pair of badass 15" subs that are fast and musical. I hope to get at least 700 for my SB1000's, but we'll see. That would cover a lot of my costs.

*Edit: I'm open to going ported too, but will need a lot of guidance. I don't do well reading through threads of other builds and stuff. It's harder for me to absorb.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well if you're going diy, I know rythmik has support for that. I hate sounding like a fanboi but the fv15hp is one of the most badass 15's available and super articulate. I don't have direct experience with Dayton stuff but they seem to measure good and people do love them for diy. Are they as linear as any of the ID subs? I've never seen a side by side comparison but I know diy is easier to get wrong than right lol. Also, a little Or, but I would suggest some towers in that space too. I also sit at 14ish feet, and as I mentioned, have a huge airspace. Bookshelves just can't offer the same dynamics in a big room. Just a couple more cents.


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[shadyJ]

The Dayton Ultimax drivers are very good. I think it could keep up with the ULS-15, with enough amplification. I wouldn't be surprised if it had a bit more xmax and a lower Fs, so it should be able to dig a bit deeper. However, it is not the most sensitive driver, so you will need to give it adequate amplification. I would want to use at least 800 watts per driver. They will be fine with less, of course, and still get loud, but I don't think they will be able to surpass the mid bass performance of the ULS subs with less, if they can surpass them at all above 50 Hz. The ULS is a very nicely balanced sub in terms of performance.

 

[Pogre]

I'm good with Rythmik too. In fact I like the idea of a diy Rythmik kit.

The towers are gonna have to wait. I'm really happy with my Ultras and to upgrade to towers will probably cost me 2 grand or more. Right now I just wanna focus on my sub options.

 

[Pogre]

The Dayton Ultimax drivers are very good. I think it could keep up with the ULS-15, with enough amplification. I wouldn't be surprised if it had a bit more xmax and a lower Fs, so it should be able to dig a bit deeper. However, it is not the most sensitive driver, so you will need to give it adequate amplification. I would want to use at least 800 watts per driver. They will be fine with less, of course, and still get loud, but I don't think they will be able to surpass the mid bass performance of the ULS subs with less, if they can surpass them at all above 50 Hz. The ULS is a very nicely balanced sub in terms of performance.

that's a lot of power. I was thinking of one 2 channel amp to drive both speakers. What would be able to do it? This is a whole new world for me.