Advice: 2 Channel System

[1911]

I plan on moving my current 2-channel bedroom system into my young daughter’s room. This system consists of a vintage Marantz 2238B, LG DVD, and Snell KIIs. I would like to build a new 2-channel bedroom system for myself. I am completely open to purchasing used/good condition equipment. I have listed my preferences and the budget for each component. I am not interested in anything made in China, no matter the quality. So far, this is what I am thinking:

Integrated amp: Budget: ~ $1,000.00

Krell 400xi

CD/BD/DVD: Budget: ~ $250.00

Need recommendations. I realize I may have to break my no China rule here. I have looked at Marantz, NAD, Yamaha, Adcom, etc., but I guess it doesn’t matter much.

Note: I dislike TVs in the bedroom. I doubt I will need a DVD/BD/Universal; however, I may change my mind in the future.

Tuner:

I already have a mint Kenwood KT6500, which operates very nicely.

Speakers: Budget: < $2,000.00

In order of preference:
Salk Supercharged Song Surround
Revel M22
Dynaudio Focus 140
Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2

Comments, suggestions, advice? Thanks…

 

[1911]

Does anyone have any comments or recommendations?

 

[cel4145]

I have the Sierra 1s, and they are excellent speakers for the money. I have little doubt that the Sierra 2s are an excellent value for their price point.

I have no idea what is made in China or not when it comes to amps.

 

[Seth=L]

Are you apposed to buying your disc spinner second hand?

 

[everettT]

Since no sub, you might look at these for speakers.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/BMR Philharmonitor.html

They go play to 30hz down 2dbs

 

[1911]

Cel: Thanks, the Ascend Acoustic speakers seem to be well-regarded.

Seth: I am not opposed to purchasing second hand.

everett: Those BMR Philharmonitors look great, I'll read up on them. I'm not opposed to using a sub, but I wanted to give whatever speakers I choose a thorough test drive before deciding if a sub is necessary. I keep changing my speaker list (above), so I guess what it will boil down to is which speaker I can find for the best price when I'm ready to purchase.

 

[j_garcia]

I'd recommend the Phils also, but have you heard any of those mentioned? Salk and Dennis work together, so you can't go wrong with either. Ascends, always on the list too. I think of your choices, you won't go wrong really.

 

[1911]

j_garcia: I agree, which is why I think it will boil down to what I can find at the best price. I plan on building a new main system as well - I started a thread on this a while ago in the McIntosh section, and I plan on using Salks for that system, so I may want to try something different for the bedroom. Right now I am leaning towards the Revel M22s or the Dynaudio Focus 140s, based solely on the many review I have read. Unfortunately, in my neck of the woods, I have no way to audition any of them. I have auditioned Focals in the past and I do like them.

 

[j_garcia]

I heard the Revel 105 or 106 a while back powered by the new Parasound integrated and I was really impressed with both the speakers and the integrated. Haven't heard any Dynaudios in a long time since the nearest dealers are far now too. Regardless of the rest of the gear, the speakers are where it all starts.

 

[1911]

I've read great reviews of the New Parasound Halo 2.1 Integrated, but, alas, I afraid it's outside my budget by quite a bit. I did see a used one for $1,800.00, though.

Other than the Krell 400xi (USA), I was considering the following integrated amps:

• Anthem 225 (Taiwan)
• Unison Research Unico Hybrid Integrated (Italy)
  
• Parasound Halo 2.1 Integrated (Taiwan)

There are others under consideration as well. Obviously I will have to buy used to stay within my budget and I don't think I will be able to find the Parasound at the right price - perhaps in a year or 2, the prices will drop enough, but I think the Krell is probably the best bet for a audiophile grade integrated amp that meets my budget, + it's made in USA

Also, regarding speakers, it's next to impossible to find Salks on the used market, but I have seen the Revel M22s for around 1K (sometimes including the original stands) and the Dynaudio Focus 140s for around $800.00, so I'd save about a grand going this route over the Salk Supercharged Song Surrounds, which would be a substantial savings for me.

 

[PENG]

I've read great reviews of the New Parasound Halo 2.1 Integrated, but, alas, I afraid it's outside my budget by quite a bit. I did see a used one for $1,800.00, though.

Other than the Krell 400xi (USA), I was considering the following integrated amps:

• Anthem 225 (Taiwan)
• Unison Research Unico Hybrid Integrated (Italy)
  
• Parasound Halo 2.1 Integrated (Taiwan)

You may also consider the Yamaha A-S801 that is on sale, brand new for USD899 and has very decent ESS DAC built in. Not sure if it is made in China. Halo is made in Taiwan if I remember right.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi...ts/amps/a-s801/?mode=model#page=1&mode=paging

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/yamaha-a-s801-amplifier-review

 

[Swerd]

Also, regarding speakers, it's next to impossible to find Salks on the used market, but I have seen the Revel M22s for around 1K (sometimes including the original stands) and the Dynaudio Focus 140s for around $800.00, so I'd save about a grand going this route over the Salk Supercharged Song Surrounds, which would be a substantial savings for me.

Both the Revel M22 and Dynaudio Focus 140 are very good speakers, but I think they may not be in the same class as the Salk Supercharged Song Surround. Why did you choose that Salk model?

I think you might be pleased with the Salk SongSurround I at $895 per pair. For similar reasons, I also suggest the New Philharmonitor from Philharmonic Audio, or the 3-way BMR Philharmonitor.

If you are located anywhere near Detroit, MI, you can contact Jim Salk to hear his speakers. And if you are anywhere near Bethesda, MD, you can contact Dennis Murphy who designed most Salk speakers as well as his own line, Philharmonic Audio.

 

[1911]

PENG: Thanks for the reminder. I read the reviews on the Yamaha A-S3000 quite a while ago and although it is an impressive integrated amp, that 6.5K + price tag made me almost choke. The A-S3000 can now be found for well under 4K. The A-S1100 can be found for around 2K new. Perhaps I could find a used A-S1100 within my budget. I did find a new A-S1000 for $999.00. I will take another look at the A-S801 as I have found used units for around $600.00 and the reviews on the A-S801 are also quite good.

Swerd: Answering your question regarding Salk speakers is somewhat difficult. I have been looking for new speakers for quite some time and I have read many reviews – both professional and consumer – on many different brands of speakers. I have auditioned speakers when I have been able - mostly in other cities. These auditions included KEF, Paradigm, B&W, PSB, Focal, etc… Several of these options were what I’d deem to be good to very good; however, I always felt that none of the speakers I auditioned really grabbed me and engaged me like I think they should have. The more I researched and the more I read, the more I realized that I kept going back to Salk. The craftsmanship, design and components found in Salk speakers, coupled with the stellar reviews, sold me on the brand. I’ve never read a negative comment regarding Salk and as I stated above, they are next to impossible to find on the used market. Regarding the Salk Supercharged Song Surround, I chose that model because I thought it might be the best option for a monitor-type speaker, which would be suitable to use as mains. I would like the speakers for this system to be somewhere between a mini-monitor and a small/med. tower, and the Salk Supercharged Song Surrounds seem to fit the bill nicely. I will certainly consider the Salk Surround I as well, but I wanted to speak to Jim about my system and my needs before deciding, if I decide to go the Salk route for this system. Although I have never heard Salks, Revel M22s or Dynaudio Focus 140s, based upon my research, I believe you are correct in stating that the Salks are in a class a bit above the Revels and Dynaudios, mainly due to the factors I mentioned above. What is your reasoning for stating that the Revel and Dynaudio aren’t in the same class as Salks?

I currently live in W. TX so, unfortunately, I do not have the ability to visit Salk or Murphy.

 

[Swerd]

I’ve been a dedicated Salk and Dennis Murphy fanboy going back to 2004, essentially as long as I’ve known them. All of these speakers feature a flat frequency response curve across the entire midrange, and an over all neutral balance. They all have excellent off-axis response that leads to a wide and realistic sound image. Because of that, they all share a common sound. The differences tend to come at the low and high frequencies where higher price will buy cleaner sound. I might be biased, but in my opinion, these speakers sound as good as or better than anything else I've known. There are other very good sounding speakers, but they almost always sell at higher prices.

My first experience with a Dennis Murphy design was in 2005 with a small DIY 2-way speaker I built, called the CAOW1. I still use them. The CAOW1 is essentially the same as the Salk SongSurround I – same cabinet dimensions and drivers, but with 2nd order crossover slopes instead of the 4th order slopes used in the Salk SSI. I’m pretty sure I do not hear a difference between speakers if they are identical other than the crossover slopes.

In 2007, I bought a pair of Salk SongTowers (ST) and have been an enthusiastic fanboy ever since. Recently, I replaced the SongTowers with Salk Veracity ST (VST) speakers. (I was going to sell the STs, but my son wants them.) The VSTs are similar MTM tower speakers with more expensive woofer and ribbon tweeter. The woofers are similar (6" instead of 5½") to the woofer in the SC SongSurround, and the ribbon tweeter is identical. My own experience listening to the different drivers in the CAOW1 and ST vs. the drivers in the VST is what leads me to say the SC SongSurround is in a class above that of the Revel or Dynaudio speakers you mentioned. I have not made a direct listening comparison. I have, however, have directly compared my DIY CAOW1s with KEF LS50 speakers. They are not identical, but in my opinion are equally satisfying. The KEFs retail for $1500, and the Salk SongSurround I sells for $895 plus shipping. Nuff said!

I urge you to call or email Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy. They know each other well. Both are very good at talking to people, such as yourself, about these decisions. They won’t try to oversell you with a higher priced product.

I currently live in W. TX so, unfortunately, I do not have the ability to visit Salk or Murphy.

If you contact Jim Salk or Dennis Murphy, they might know of someone closer to you who is willing show off his speakers. There is a forum dedicated to Salk speakers http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=82.0 . At the very top is a thread for speakers that Salk has available for immediate delivery.

 

[j_garcia]

I also own the CAOW1s and love them

 

[Swerd]

You may also consider the Yamaha A-S801 that is on sale, brand new for USD899 and has very decent ESS DAC built in.

For what it's worth, when I first built the CAOW1s I drove them with an old Marantz 2230 (30 wpc) receiver. A year or two later I bought a used 105 wpc amp which, when used with the old Marantz as a pre-amp, drove those speakers nicely. Tripling the power made a noticeable difference.

I once briefly heard a Yamaha A-S701 driving those speakers, and thought it did well. If I remember correctly those two Yamaha integrated amps share the same 100 wpc amplifier sections. The 801 might work well for the speakers the OP is interested in.

 

[1911]

Swerd: Great info., thanks. I was considering the Salk Salk Veracity HT2-TL, for my main system, but they are a bit pricey. I'll likely end up with the Salk Song Tower RT for my main system.

I will certainly give Salk and Murphy a call when I'm ready. Perhaps they do have a customer close to me that are willing to audition their speakers.

I think the Yamaha A-S801, A-S1000 or the A-S1100 would be a great option, with my preference going to the A-S1100, provided I can find one for the right price.

Any opinion on the Yamaha integrated vs. the Krell 400xi? I've read great reviews on the Krell as well as the Yamaha.

 

[KEW]

Something you should decide is whether a phono or a digital input is important to you. You can add a DAC or Phono preamp later, but it is more economical to buy them in your amp if you can.

I would not decide an amplifier until you have chosen your speakers. Generally, a well designed 100WPC amp will drive most speakers made just fine, however, it is wise to know the specific demands of your speakers before you chose your amp. Obviously, if you buy from Salk or Murphy, they can give you some very accurate info on power demands.

I should also mention that Murphy has options like front porting speakers and getting the cabinet custom made by Salk (since you mentioned his craftsmanship as a selling point). Of course there is an additional fee, but if I was buying today, it would likely be a Philharmonic product with a cabinet by Salk.

 

[PENG]

Swerd: Great info., thanks. I was considering the Salk Salk Veracity HT2-TL, for my main system, but they are a bit pricey. I'll likely end up with the Salk Song Tower RT for my main system.

I will certainly give Salk and Murphy a call when I'm ready. Perhaps they do have a customer close to me that are willing to audition their speakers.

I think the Yamaha A-S801, A-S1000 or the A-S1100 would be a great option, with my preference going to the A-S1100, provided I can find one for the right price.

Any opinion on the Yamaha integrated vs. the Krell 400xi? I've read great reviews on the Krell as well as the Yamaha.

Obviously the Krell, if in good condition, is going to out perform the A-S1100 but I do not believe it will be anything noticeable by most people. I have had my fair share of experience with relatively expensive amps to know anything at the quality level of those low cost (relatively speaking) Yamaha, Anthem, Parasound integrated amps will get you over the point of diminishing return so in my opinion, features, such as the digital inputs, and reliability are the more important deciding factors.

 

[Swerd]

Swerd: Great info., thanks. I was considering the Salk Salk Veracity HT2-TL, for my main system, but they are a bit pricey. I'll likely end up with the Salk Song Tower RT for my main system.

The HT2-TL would have been my choice too, in an ideal world. It's large footprint (9"×17") made it a difficult fit in my family room. The ST and the VST have the same smaller footprint of 8"×12".

I've heard the SongTower RT. It's very nice.

Both Jim and Dennis will be glad to talk about their experience with amps and power requirements for their speakers.

Any opinion on the Yamaha integrated vs. the Krell 400xi? I've read great reviews on the Krell as well as the Yamaha.

I value PENG's opinions on all things related to electronic gear. He is an EE who understands the difference between electronic values measured in lab bench tests, and what can actually be heard by listeners while listening to an audio system.