Two channel music question. Marantz Receiver vs Yamaha integrated?

[croseiv]

I am just making the EXTREMELY SIMPLE point that an AVR (like the Yamaha & Denon) can output 300 Watts x 2 CH.

It is a FACT. It has been MEASURED INDEPENDENTLY.

That’s my only point because the person I replied to said that AVR’s have less power than most integrated amps.

Now if you don’t like AVR, that’s fine. I am not going to beat a dead horse. Not trying to argue why someone should buy an AVR.

Actually, he did not say that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Actually, he did not say that.

Many of the loaded modern AVRs focus on spreading the power amongst many speakers and can sometimes fall short on the power supply demand.

I might have misinterpreted this post. But it sounded to me that you said many loaded modern AVRs don’t have enough power (fall short on the power supply demand).

Surely 340 Watts x 2CH into 4 ohms is more than enough power and does NOT fall short on the power supply demand.

 

[croseiv]

That I did say. I stand by that statement. AVRs have a notorious history of exaggerated multichannel output capability. Driven off of basically a two-channel power rail.

 

[lovinthehd]

That I did say. I stand by that statement. AVRs have a notorious history of exaggerated multichannel output capability. Driven off of basically a two-channel power rail.

But why does that matter if all you're doing is using 2ch? ACD ratings are not particularly meaningful either.

 

[croseiv]

But why does that matter if all you're doing is using 2ch? ACD ratings are not particularly meaningful either.

It is exactly why I said I don't need an AVR. I like AVRs. But they are a bit of a bungle hole (pain in the arse). sometimes. Just trying to clarify some of the basic differences between the two animals. Not trying to make a "pissin match". "More" is not always "better". But often, it is, depending on the circumstances.

 

[lovinthehd]

It is exactly why I said I don't need an AVR. I like AVRs. But they are a bit of a bungle hole (pain in the arse). sometimes. Just trying to clarify some of the basic differences between the two animals. Not trying to make a "pissin match". "More" is not always "better". But often, it is, depending on the circumstances.

The question wasn't whether you need/wanted an avr or not, tho. More about the power if you did have one and wanted to use it in 2ch mode....and economies of scale make the integrated amp often not a very good deal as well as coming up short on feature set.

 

[croseiv]

The question wasn't whether you need/wanted an avr or not, tho. More about the power if you did have one and wanted to use it in 2ch mode....and economies of scale make the integrated amp often not a very good deal as well as coming up short on feature set.

TLS Guy answered very eloquently a few posts back in the thread.

 

[PENG]

Hey HD, did you know that Andrew Robinson actually has a video in which he listed his 5 (iirc) reasons why people should consider using AVRs for 2 channel stereo? I never really take him serious as his reviews are 100% subjective, biased, you name it..., other than going through the features, but am still surprise by that video so I clicked on it. To my surprise, I thought such a highly subjective kind of "reviewer" would tell people how integrated amps will "sound better" than AVRs (of course I mean only the good ones, int or avr) but he actually said no they don't lol..

As you know, once you watch something like that, YT will show you another one and this one, not well known like Robinson, listed 7 reasons.

Back to my own opinion, I have been waiting for an integrated amp that I will buy right away (well, almost, but may wait to see some measurements first) that has the following features:

1) Has true subwoofer outputs (2 will be nice) that can be used with Dirac Live PC standalone version such that using HDMI and/or (preferred both) syn USB inputs it can be configured to do 2.1. No build in DAC though, please.., imo tranditional integrated just integrate a traditional preamp and power amp. More than that, would be like streamers, AVRs etc.

2) Ability to set crossovers, i.e. LP to subouts.

Or same without 1), but just a 3 channel integrated amp that can achieve the same as above, using my own external dacs with my PC and Dirac Live.

Currently I am aware of such an integrated amp. The Marantz NR1200 may come close, but so far I am unable to confirm whether it can work for my intended 2.1 stereo, with Dirac Live PC version.

 

[croseiv]

Andrew is a hoot. Very entertaining, to say the least.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey HD, did you know that Andrew Robinson actually has a video in which he listed his 5 (iirc) reasons why people should consider using AVRs for 2 channel stereo? I never really take him serious as his reviews are 100% subjective, biased, you name it..., other than going through the features, but am still surprise by that video so I clicked on it. To my surprise, I thought such a highly subjective kind of "reviewer" would tell people how integrated amps will "sound better" than AVRs (of course I mean only the good ones, int or avr) but he actually said no they don't lol..

As you know, once you watch something like that, YT will show you another one and this one, not well known like Robinson, listed 7 reasons.

Back to my own opinion, I have been waiting for an integrated amp that I will buy right away (well, almost, but may wait to see some measurements first) that has the following features:

1) Has true subwoofer outputs (2 will be nice) that can be used with Dirac Live PC standalone version such that using HDMI and/or (preferred both) syn USB inputs it can be configured to do 2.1. No build in DAC though, please.., imo tranditional integrated just integrate a traditional preamp and power amp. More than that, would be like streamers, AVRs etc.

2) Ability to set crossovers, i.e. LP to subouts.

Or same without 1), but just a 3 channel integrated amp that can achieve the same as above, using my own external dacs with my PC and Dirac Live.

Currently I am aware of such an integrated amp. The Marantz NR1200 may come close, but so far I am unable to confirm whether it can work for my intended 2.1 stereo, with Dirac Live PC version.

No, haven't paid Robinson much attention for a while....and I think I have heard him call an integrated amp (maybe a 2ch receiver) more musical or some nonsense like that, but I don't plan on trying to find that again to see if my memory is correct but think it was early on in his series of videos

If I were in the market for a 2ch rig, a modern integrated amp could be nice...but I'd want a suite of digital connections/dac to make it more useful, as well as an amp section that could handle any needs. Bass management and two independent sub pre-outs would be nice, too. I still have a couple two ch rigs in terms of separate components (pre-amps and power amps), and have an external dac/minidsp, so I'm just not in need of one otoh.

I just don't see much in the way of such an ideal rig either, at least at a reasonable price. That Marantz NR1200 with a better amp section might be a step in the right direction, tho.

 

[Phil J N.Z.]

Go for the AVR, Marantz make good gear and with their AVR units have always had good sound in 2 channel, besides you can add a small sub bass as well.

I use my SR7015 for both movies music DVD and 2 channel stereo from my oppo and Turntable, no issues at all.

 

[PENG]

If I were in the market for a 2ch rig, a modern integrated amp could be nice...but I'd want a suite of digital connections/dac to make it more useful, as well as an amp section that could handle any needs. Bass management and two independent sub pre-outs would be nice, too. I still have a couple two ch rigs in terms of separate components (pre-amps and power amps), and have an external dac/minidsp, so I'm just not in need of one otoh.

Haha we are diagonally opposite on this, I enjoy the fun of being able to rotate my low cost ext. dacs using my one and only traditional integrated amps. My more expensive DACs are used in my separates, not that I can hear differences either way, more for principles, and above all, fun.

I will probably never buy any integrated amps that has build in DAC.

 

[chaz57]

I would go with the AVR. Even if all things sound quality wise were equal, the price for dedicated 2-channel is comparatively ridiculous, IMO. Especially if you want to build a system of 100 WPC or more.

Anymore, when I use two-channel separate amps/receivers or integrated, I end up using my vintage equipment instead, and only with actual full range speakers that can reach into the middle 30hz range, or so. The other thing is I opt for significantly more displacement (8" or bigger) speakers when there are no subs.

I also use my vintage stereo for two channel listening, but I also use a subwoofer with high level connections. It's a bit more of a pain in the butt and some extra wires.