Clean tight and accurate under $1K recommendations please

[Acoustat]

Read some of the responses from this thread.

Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 558 - AVS Forum
Nice, thanks!. BTW, your Avatar is scaring me 3db

 

[jcparks]

OMG that Avatar is from Pink Floyd, The Wall!!! One of the greatest album/music video/movies of all time!!!

 

[Acoustat]

OMG that Avatar is from Pink Floyd, The Wall!!! One of the greatest album/music video/movies of all time!!!

LOL I really need to get back to basics! I love Roger Waters and I'm pretty sure I have nothing Pink Floyd on vinyl.
I do have the dark side on disk. Didn't Pink Floyd have an album you opened up and it was 3D, I mean it stood up and unfolded or something.
I've never seen it, and it could be a different band. It's a rarity a friend of mine at work has mentioned he has.
Can't find it, will ask Mon.

I'm really going to need some help with setup when I get my sub and AVR to use the Audyssey 32 to tune just the sub.

 

[GIEGAR]

LOL I really need to get back to basics! I love Roger Waters and I'm pretty sure I have nothing Pink Floyd on vinyl.
I do have the dark side on disk. Didn't Pink Floyd have an album you opened up and it was 3D, I mean it stood up and unfolded or something.
I've never seen it, and it could be a different band. It's a rarity a friend of mine at work has mentioned he has.
Can't find it, will ask Mon.

Leave the 2 channel behind! When you get set up for surround, you'll love this: Amazon.com: Pink Floyd - Pulse: David Gilmour, Nick Mason, Richard Wright

​

...
Do believe I'll be ordering a Denon 4000X this weekend. Should I start a build thread?
It won't be a full fledged HT system for a bit, but would be a nice conversion process.

The Denon X4000 is a great choice! After you RFM , this is a comprehensive source of information: The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - AVS Forum. If batpig and jdsmoothie can't answer a Denon question, nobody can.

I'm really going to need some help with setup when I get my sub and AVR to use the Audyssey 32 to tune just the sub.

Here is a good start for everything you ever wanted to know about Audyssey: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1726 - AVS Forum

 

[Acoustat]

Leave the 2 channel behind! When you get set up for surround, you'll love this: Amazon.com: Pink Floyd - Pulse: David Gilmour, Nick Mason, Richard Wright

The Denon X4000 is a great choice! After you RFM , this is a comprehensive source of information: The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - AVS Forum. If batpig and jdsmoothie can't answer a Denon question, nobody can.



Here is a good start for everything you ever wanted to know about Audyssey: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1726 - AVS Forum

Oh BOY!!! Thanks for the great links. I bookmarked the DVD, pretty good price too.
What is RFM please?

 

[GIEGAR]

Oh BOY!!! Thanks for the great links. I bookmarked the DVD, pretty good price too.

Plenty more where that came from when you get to multichannel music.

Batbig's site is informative and entertaining too: batpigworld | the "Denon-to-English" dictionary | Your one-stop shop for Denon help

What is RFM please?

Read (the) eFfing Manual!

Pardon the French.

 

[herbu]

I believe SVS said the Denon 4000 actually has true L and R subwoofer outs, not so sure about that, it does have 2.

The 2 sub outputs are labeled Sub1 and Sub2, both on the back of the AVR and in the onscreen menus.

 

[Acoustat]

The 2 sub outputs are labeled Sub1 and Sub2, both on the back of the AVR and in the onscreen menus.

so if it's in the onscreen menu can they be assigned L&R?
I haven't made it to the Denon links above yet.

My guess, is that with the Audyssey Platinum, that subwoofer choice
for acoustics sake, would not be quite as much an issue
particularly where room gain and acoustics of a room come into play.

 

[Irishman]

Oops thats what I get for watching tv and posting... I should have known I couldn't do 2 things at once...

$1000 Dual VTF2's.... hands down... I have tried a lot of subs, vtf2 is the guy, call hsu try to get a deal on a pair...

I'm with ImcLoud on this one.

 

[Irishman]

Oh I forgot...
If you aren't afraid of a little DIY... you can try this monster.
Dayton Audio RS1202K 1000 Watt Dual 12" Subwoofer Kit
The assembly should actually be relatively simple. Just let me know what you think of it if you decide to go with this one.

:sigh: You DIY guys think everyone wants to build their gear themselves.

It's so cute.

 

[Acoustat]

I'm with ImcLoud on this one.

I won't be doing a down firing sub with this system
since I'm using a higher crossover point
Price point is great though

 

[Acoustat]

Ok, need a little help here. The Rythmik subs extend the frequency response to 200Hz in LFE mode.
The graph is not as controlled as the HSU graph, and I don't think the HSU requires the LFE mode
to produce upper frequencies. I don't know. Have had a lot of info thrown at me over the last week
researching this, so why would I want to use LFE rather than line in from my AVR?
(Please keep in mind that I'm wanting upper frequencies to pass on to the sub from the AVR i.e.100-200Hz)

What frequency height does the LFE pass on?

There are 2 sets of (non-slave modes) RCA inputs on the Rythmik and one set RCA on the HSU.
Is there an advantage to 2 RCA inputs and/or why would I want 2?

 

[Irishman]

I won't be doing a down firing sub with this system
since I'm using a higher crossover point
Price point is great though

Higher than 80hz? Why?

ETA: Ah, never mind. I found it. It's your electrostats.

 

[Acoustat]

Higher than 80hz? Why?

I'm blending with electrostatic mains which has a bass panel in each that is selectable on/off,
at the 100Hz frequency crossover point. The idea is both to blend as seamlessly as possible
during normal playback for HiFi music, and both HT and music for increased SPL.
The bass panel does not handle deep bass with a lot of SPL, rather a reproduction of the
frequency response of the speakers with incredible accuracy and sound stage.

The only reasons I did not go with Martin Logan Monolith or their CLS at the time was
the Acoustat offered a lifetime warranty, but also, the bass was electrostatic
unlike Martin Logan. The Acoustats claim +8db gain or more, releasing the bass panel and using their sub

I've been told that it is more difficult to blend a sub, with electrostatic panels that do not resonate
as does a vented subwoofer.

Like TLS was saying, we don't want to spoil the already excellent sound stage, rather accompany it.
Unfortunately, being at the original budget for the entire speaker system with just the AVR
the sub will have to wait till I rebuild my funds, then a second sub will be in the works.

Down firing subs just don't appeal to me anyway, 25 yrs ago.

 

[Irishman]

Got it. So, you'll effectively be running an LFE + mains setup.

That's going to take some effort to tune properly.

Down-firing subs are fine, unless it's firing right into a deep carpet. You're not bringing back shag carpet, are you?

 

[Acoustat]

Got it. So, you'll effectively be running an LFE + mains setup.

That's going to take some effort to tune properly.

Down-firing subs are fine, unless it's firing right into a deep carpet. You're not bringing back shag carpet, are you?

LOL no but Michael Myers might

Tuning should be a cinch with the Denon 4000's Sub EQ HT, or so I'm hoping.
I'm just unsure of whether I'll be using LFE or not. Well there's a ton more I'm unsure about, but that's 1st on my mind ATM.

If I had my way about it, I would have centre surrounds and rears as electrostatics.
Maybe on the other side of life. Then there's the pair of Legacy Goliath subs to go with that setup.
In the meantime, I need to preserve what I have and buy subs to keep from overdriving them
with the increased impact of the HT setting.

 

[shadyJ]

Remember that Audyssey's Sub EQ can not help you if you hook up the subs to the high level input.

 

[TLS Guy]

Remember that Audyssey's Sub EQ can not help you if you hook up the subs to the high level input.

Trust me, this is one Audyssey will get wrong. It is not conceived for this situation in any way.

 

[shadyJ]

Hey TLS Guy, what is the idea behind how you are suggesting he set his subs up with his speakers? You are saying that only a front-firing, sealed sub with high level inputs can work with these speakers, but why? I am guessing you are trying to get the sub in phase with a dipole electrostat speaker which sounds like it could be challenging. I am not trying to sound critical, I don't doubt that you are right, I am just curious about what it is you are trying to accomplish and why.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey TLS Guy, what is the idea behind how you are suggesting he set his subs up with his speakers? You are saying that only a front-firing, sealed sub with high level inputs can work with these speakers, but why? I am guessing you are trying to get the sub in phase with a dipole electrostat speaker which sounds like it could be challenging. I am not trying to sound critical, I don't doubt that you are right, I am just curious about what it is you are trying to accomplish and why.

I never said high level inputs, but line level inputs.

The sub needs to have an input that bypasses the internal crossover and level controls.

Since the crossover is going to be high, we don't want any risk of crossover stacking. As far as possible we need to eliminate unnecessary phase shifts in the sub.

The crossover point needs to be at least 100 Hz and may be higher.

So a sub with a wide bandwidth is required. In the HT environment the OP may find he needs a crossover higher than 100 Hz to protect his fragile panels.

The sub does not absolutely have to be sealed, but it needs to be low Q and have minimal phase issues. A sealed unit is most likely to fit the bill here.

An electrostatic speaker has a totally non resonant bass. Any high Q design will stick out like a sore thumb

His electrostatic speakers will never be high powered thunderous units. Therefore he does not need powerful subs. They need to be subtle and non intrusive.

The other issue is that for electrostatic speakers the subs should ideally be di-poles like the Gradient subs designed for the Quads.

However I think with subtle subs, he can get a match. I suspect if he uses subs that do not advertize themselves and he places them at the side of each panel, he will get a satisfactory result. I suspect he may need to up the crossover point to 120 Hz.

The subs must have a bandwidth at least an octave above crossover. They must be forward facing.

If I were faced with this problem I would actually be designing and building subs specific to this application.

You should never know a sub is in use.

Perfectly balanced bass is actually very hard to achieve and a goal seldom reached.