Smoke Detectors

[Alex2507]

A few brands were re-called for just the problem you've mentioned. The false alarms are caused by voltage fluctuations.
When all else is ruled out i.e. - vacuuming them every month... And if they are over 8 to 10 years old, they need to be replaced.

Vacuum the detectors? Okay. I've got three of those detectors somehow. One's for carbon monoxide. I imagine one is tied to the building's fire alarm and I think I need to know how that works for disconnecting/replacing. Like if I disconnect the wires will the building's alarm go off?

I was messing with some sensor downstairs in our laundry room while replacing acoustic ceiling tiles and really wanted to disconnect the wires but instead settled for cutting the tile like an amateur. The J-box isn't on a bracket but has conduit keeping it at that elevation. The old tile dropped below the ceiling by an 1/8" which the replacement does not. At this point I'm just curious if disconnecting the wires would trip the alarm. The more I look at that the more I think that shorting the wires out would trip it.

This one goes to the furnace-A/C disconnect in my utility closet and there's a switch attached to it to power down the fan. I don't like how it's plumbed and I don't like where the switch is so knowing how that works is on my radar as well.

Is there an electrician in the house?

 

[Tarub]

Is the building has a monitoring fire alarm panel? If they do, it will only send a trouble alarm to the panel when you disconnect the wires on smoke detectors. I think, if Im not mistaken that your (smoke detector)system is an alarm to the individual room only - not centralize. The pull station is the one that send an alarm throughout the building for evacuation.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I wouldn't be afraid to disconnect them or even cut them...

...considering it's in your house...

 

[Rickster71]

The commercial head units you have are different and better than what's used in a home, and have a longer life....you won't find them at the depot.
It gets tricky giving advice, when it comes to a multi-unit dwelling (liability, for all involved)
You've got a heat detector and a smoke. Heat heads in the laundry and furnace. They go back to an annunciator panel and you'd really have to know what you're doing in regards to shunting your zone while working on it.
Different brands switch them as 'normally open' or normally closed' ...so you'd really need to know how that brand handles it.

I'd try to find out the last time the Fire Dept tested them. You could ask them or the building Mgr. I'll bet the FD will come out and test them for free.

 

[Alex2507]

Hmmm ... so you're saying to experiment with them and just see what happens?

 

[Alex2507]

My Carbon Monoxide sensor started going off and it turns out that that's what it does when it expires (5 years). I need a new one and would like a recommendation. I'm hoping for something better than the Home Depot offering but then again I think I have a Home Depot gift card so it wouldn't break my heart to not spend cash.

 

[GO-NAD!]

My Carbon Monoxide sensor started going off and it turns out that that's what it does when it expires (5 years). I need a new one and would like a recommendation. I'm hoping for something better than the Home Depot offering but then again I think I have a Home Depot gift card so it wouldn't break my heart to not spend cash.

This is the top rated interconnected CO detector at Consumer Reports:

First Alert Onelink Wireless Interconnect Carbon Monoxide Detector with Voice Alarm-CO511B at The Home Depot

And, the top rated stand-alone unit:

First Alert Plug-In Carbon Monoxide Alarm with Digital Display and Battery Backup-CO615 at The Home Depot

 

[Alex2507]

This is the top rated interconnected CO detector at Consumer Reports:

First Alert Onelink Wireless Interconnect Carbon Monoxide Detector with Voice Alarm-CO511B at The Home Depot

And, the top rated stand-alone unit:

First Alert Plug-In Carbon Monoxide Alarm with Digital Display and Battery Backup-CO615 at The Home Depot

Well, alright! Now I need to figure out if one is enough. Our furnace and water heater are centrally located and the old alarm was on the ceiling in the hallway outside that utility closet. Does the kitchen need one? We don't have a gas stove. I'll probably go with the stand alone unit and mount it in the same place ... unless further reading calls for a change in location.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Well, alright! Now I need to figure out if one is enough. Our furnace and water heater are centrally located and the old alarm was on the ceiling in the hallway outside that utility closet. Does the kitchen need one? We don't have a gas stove. I'll probably go with the stand alone unit and mount it in the same place ... unless further reading calls for a change in location.

I don't know what the correct answer is but I have one in the basement with the heater and one in each bedroom so we can hear it. (two of them started chirping recently and I need to get out and get them...thanks for the reminder!)

 

[Alex2507]

I found that I'm fine with one. I think I recall Rick saying they were important but that didn't really light a fire under my *** to get the replacement here, but Cheryl saw something on TV this morning and suddenly I'm an expert on on Carbon Monoxide Sensors and their installation. This was a multi national exchange of ideas. It's sad that I'm so subservient. It's been like this since the boys went in that little jar she carries in her purse.

Before anything happens I gotta clear the joint out but even before that I'm a grind up some beans ...

 

[Adam]

I think I recall Rick saying they were important...

I'm not sure that's what he was talking about when he asked if you had protection back at your place.

I'm a grind up some beans ...

That, on the other hand...

 

[ImcLoud]

I like to see a co/smoke/combustible gas 3 in 1 detector inside the boiler room towards the door {in homes with gas} USI sells one for $40 or so, a separate co in the bedroom and on each floor, then smokes where ever you can get them... Going a step further a BRK 5120 wired into the fireomatic switch {thats the red cover in your above picture with the small lead melt/break module} with a brk rm4 so when it detects co it breaks L1 going to your burner feed. CO poisoning is a terrible way to go, I have seen it first hand and there is no such thing as being too safe...

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I think we have about 9 smoke detectors in our house.

My belief is that 1 or even 0 will be fine for you.....

 

[sawzalot]

This is exactly why this is the greatest forum going, Saturday Morning safety meeting, Smoke Alarms check, CO sensor check, combustible gas che.. well we will look into that one. Now come on guys/gals we all just went and took a look at our smokes after Alex posted up, I know I did and I am happy to report that all is well I just recently fished 14/3 wire through every ceiling ( ample attic space almost everywhere) then installed interconnected w/ battery backup smokes and a new co sensor just outside of the utility room, we only had K mart battery smokes before so I am really happy to go this route, it took some effort but I feel much more safe/protected , that first alert to fire and smoke is a definite life saver. These suckers are LOUD when they all go off.I installed this model-Kidde Hardwired Interconnectable 120-Volt Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm with Battery Backup-KN-COPE-I at The Home Depot

 

[ImcLoud]

sawz that is a good unit, kind of the go to unit for most contractors, congrats on going through the trouble and making your family more safe... I feel very strongly about fire safety, a few bucks, a little time and some attention to detail and you can save your family, seems like a no brainer to me...

I have one of these in each upstairs room of my house $30 each seems pretty cheap to me

My home fire alarm system is pretty thorough, heat sensors in the garage and over the heating systems, smoke/cos hardwired throughout the house including in the attic and inside the duct work trunk lines {36 in total} hardwire powered with internal and external battery backup, monitored through my security system, plus a gas/co/smoke detector wired to shut my boilers down, ect ect ect and it all cost me under $4000 when i built the house!!! that's a small price to pay for something that can save your families lives... The monitored system is tough, because you don't want your firedept showing up every time the kids burn toast, BUT I have a 3 minute delay and all I have to do for it not to call the alarm service is hit one of the 8 silent buttons or a button on any detector {but my ceilings prohibit that from happening, unless I go get a ladder or broom and by then the fire dept will be there lol}... Another nice option with my system is after hour alert, if my smokes get alerted after 10pm and before 7am my house alarm sounds, the hallway, stairway, and outside lights all come on, and you are not sleeping through that...

But anyway, even a cheaper system, fire extinguisher on each floor and in kitchen, ladder in each upstairs room, smoke/co's in every staircase and hallway you can spend under $200 and be much safer... Also the even the best system in the world can be worthless with out a plan, I go over it with my kids a couple times a year, let them use their bedroom ladders, check everything out, change batteries, ect... If the alarm goes off, they know, check their bedroom door, check for smoke, look into the hallway {the emergency lights will be on if the alarms are sounding at night}, if there is smoke they go out the window, if they can get to one bedroom I prefer they both go out one so they can help each other, then after outside they know our meeting spot, and they are to wait never go back in... I have fire drilled them and they seem to be prepared, they can get out of the house and down the ladder in under 120 seconds, now in an emergency where they see smoke and don't see me, I don't know but at least they will know what to do... I have my own plan too for me and my wife, my bedroom is at the end of the hall, so in case of a fire I am going to my sons room which is at the end of the hall on the other side of the house making sure my other son and wife are with me and we all go down his ladder...

Hopefully we never need this stuff, but the house I grew up in burnt to the ground when I was 14, we lost our dog, cat, and house... My parents rebuilt on the same foundation but we had a fire plan and drills after that....

 

[ImcLoud]

Sawz, I went and looked at my gas detectors numbers, because I couldn't find it on amazon using the search "gas detector" but it came up with the numbers... Universal Security Instruments MICN109 3-in-1 Smoke, Carbon Monoxide and Natural Gas Alarm - Amazon.com its 3 in one, nice as a little back up... I have another one but its in the basement this one is near our gas fireplace inserts...

 

[Rickster71]

Well, alright! Now I need to figure out if one is enough. Our furnace and water heater are centrally located and the old alarm was on the ceiling in the hallway outside that utility closet. Does the kitchen need one? We don't have a gas stove. I'll probably go with the stand alone unit and mount it in the same place ... unless further reading calls for a change in location.

I would keep it in the old location just outside the utility room is best. I don't like putting them in the same room as the furnace. The reason, in some instances a negative pressure could develop.
It's caused by kitchen and bath exhaust fans, clothes dryers running simultaneously with the furnace and gas hot water.
That, combined with a windy day; it's a false alarm waiting to happen.
If you have an empty outlet in the bedroom, that's a good place for a second plug-in type.
Just my $0.02
EDIT: I forgot to mention; make sure you gift wrap it for Cheryl

 

[ImcLoud]

I would keep it in the old location just outside the utility room is best. I don't like putting them in the same room as the furnace. The reason, in some instances a negative pressure could develop.
It's caused by kitchen and bath exhaust fans, clothes dryers running simultaneously with the furnace and gas hot water.
That, combined with a windy day; it's a false alarm waiting to happen.

I hate to disagree but there is no such thing as a false alarm when it comes to CO if it is reading co, if you have a negative air situation causing CO to enter your conditioned living space it needs to be corrected, if your dryer or bathroom fans are causing CO to be sucked from your chimney or boiler and into your home than you need to install outside combustion air and seal your flue or some type of makeup air {air in a can} to introduce fresh air for your exhaust utilities... Most houses are not tight enough to go negative with a 63 cfm bathroom fan or clothes dryer... I do IAQ audits for the state from time to time and its my job to sell air exchangers, makeup air units, fresh air supply systems, ect so knowing the r-values, cfm counts, acceptable co, o2, organic pollutant levels a building should have and for co {even though the state publishes 5ppm} my acceptable limit is less than 1 ppm, I won't tag them"safe" until I can get 0-1ppm co and 20.9% o2, my home is no exception and nor should anyone elses...

 

[Rickster71]

I hate to disagree but there is no such thing as a false alarm when it comes to CO

I can only say that after spending over 15 years in the fire service I did go to many false alarms involving CO detectors.
The (early) residential units were overly sensitive.
It's the same reason smokes aren't required in kitchens or bathrooms, too many false positives.

if it is reading co, if you have a negative air situation causing CO to enter your conditioned living space it needs to be corrected, if your dryer or bathroom fans are causing CO to be sucked from your chimney or boiler and into your home than you need to install outside combustion air and seal your flue or some type of makeup air {air in a can} to introduce fresh air for your exhaust utilities... Most houses are not tight enough to go negative with a 63 cfm bathroom fan or clothes dryer... I do IAQ audits for the state from time to time and its my job to sell air exchangers, makeup air units, fresh air supply systems, ect so knowing the r-values, cfm counts, acceptable co, o2, organic pollutant levels a building should have and for co {even though the state publishes 5ppm} my acceptable limit is less than 1 ppm, I won't tag them"safe" until I can get 0-1ppm co and 20.9% o2, my home is no exception and nor should anyone elses...

Technically true.
It shouldn't happen, but it does. Carbon monoxide levels: What can make it rise fast?
Alex lives in a condo and it's much simpler to leave his CO unit in the original location, just outside the utility room door, and add one plug in unit to his bedroom.

 

[ImcLoud]

I leave a tag at every boiler with our emergency number and instructions in case the alarm we install, alerts. Disabling the unit via the service or stairway switch, leaving the enclosure and calling our emergency number, if there is an actual emergency dialing 911. I send a tech for free, sometimes it is just for batteries. I have seen too many dangerous situations missed by local inspectors and covered up by things like moving a CO detector, screwing a draft damper closed, sealing a gas furnaces draft hood, ect.. If there is co in the house even the national limit of 5ppm, its easy to simple to get it down to zero, so why not do it...

My uncle and father were firemen and I know it sucks going to false alarms, our local actually sends out an suv unless its a fire or health call, its great for things like smells, floods, kids locked in cars, ect... If your co detector alerts, its not a fire station emergency, just shut the appliance off, leave the building and call a service company to check it out... A couple co's are good for a small condo unit, I wouldn't go reinventing the wheel, and the plug in units are nice but they are often installed at floor level and because co is heavier {28amu vs o2 32amu} and the result of fuel combustion {heat rises} it will be most dense towards the ceiling away from the plug outlets, so wall mounted units towards the ceiling or ceiling mounted units are best bet...