Will my setup benefit by adding an Anthem MCA20 or 30?

[mtrycrafts]

.....guys, the difference is....watts, in reserve, for spl peaks, and the quick and timely reproduction of the lows....the peaks and sudden low tones are met with 500 watts of availability, or 200, and that availability only shares the food with one other sibling from the Golden Transformer.....

Worthless if he is not clipping now. How will it use more power when it is not in demand??? You will not, no matter how many watts you have in reserve. And, you should also consider the dynamic headroom as well, that is what it is there for, short bursts of power.

.....if you have a peak of 80 or 100 watts to the speakers, with a surround receiver, you're either AT the end of the road, all channels continuous especially,


Tell me which soundtrack has peaks to all channels at the exact same instant? So, it matters not about all channels continuous, does it.



or only have a little bit left, to react with any authority,


Matters not if you are not demanding that little bit that is left, does it? That last watt before clipping is just as good as the first watt.


to the peak or the low, and it probably won't be enough to effecively handle the peak or the low,

But if you are not clipping, that 500 watts in resever is for nothing, doesn't affect that 99 watts you are demanding on that last peak.

distortion, when you clip the amp section with six other amp sections sucking the transformer dry....or....non-life from watts being depleted....

Please, which soundtrack has demand for such peaks in all channels at the exact same instant. I want to check it out, if I have that in the library. Otherwise it is a waste of time talking hypotheticals that has not happened or will happen.

.....distortion blows speakers, not watts.


Speakers make their own distortion, lots of it as you drive it hard. Did you know they check subs with 10% distortion limits???

Mtrycrafts, you know I didn't mean anything

Hey, we are having a friendly discussion, or a friendly disagreement



Sir....watts in reserve sure isn't.....


Watts in reserve is useless unless you demand it. If you don't clip a receiver at 100 watts, no amount of reserve will help.

.....what you hear, suddenly has more musicality, and the "lows" are what makes you start bobbin' that head and tappin' that toe..


Here we go, subjective on me

Do it DBT, not clipping the amps.

.. will notice the increase in the musicality of the music right off also..

Is she somehow immune to bias???



reference levels, is why you do this,


Not everyone listens at reference levels with 105 dB peaks.

 

[mulester7]

I probably use only a few watts with the average sensitivity of my speakers coming in around 95dB across the front and 90dB for the rears. The internal amps in the Yamaha RX-V2500 will easily drive the speakers without even a hint of distortion. However, when the external amps are added dynamics and control that were not previously there come to life.

.....Mtrycrafts, I couldn't agree more with this real-life testimony that came across as most sincere and believable....what basis have you to contest?.....

 

[mtrycrafts]

.....and I want to add this, on a different post....there's lotsa' guys here who think their answer is in a particular sub to bring the system to life....all I can say is, get some headroom to your main's regiment, bring it to life there, and it's a whole lot easier to not sub upgrade like some do putters....you need less sub when the main's regiment comes to life....a sub shouldn't be center-stage anyway, only an extension of....yeah, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night......

You cannot bring the mains to life if the low driver cannot deliver, no matter how many watts you use. Main low drivers are not subs, most of the time, and will not respons like a sub.

That's what I missed last night, that Holiday inn Express

 

[mulester7]

.....guys, the difference is....watts, in reserve, for spl peaks, and the quick and timely reproduction of the lows....the peaks and sudden low tones are met with 500 watts of availability, or 200, and that availability only shares the food with one other sibling from the Golden Transformer.....

Worthless if he is not clipping now. How will it use more power when it is not in demand??? You will not, no matter how many watts you have in reserve. And, you should also consider the dynamic headroom as well, that is what it is there for, short bursts of power.

.....if you have a peak of 80 or 100 watts to the speakers, with a surround receiver, you're either AT the end of the road, all channels continuous especially,


Tell me which soundtrack has peaks to all channels at the exact same instant? So, it matters not about all channels continuous, does it.



or only have a little bit left, to react with any authority,


Matters not if you are not demanding that little bit that is left, does it? That last watt before clipping is just as good as the first watt.


to the peak or the low, and it probably won't be enough to effecively handle the peak or the low,

But if you are not clipping, that 500 watts in resever is for nothing, doesn't affect that 99 watts you are demanding on that last peak.

distortion, when you clip the amp section with six other amp sections sucking the transformer dry....or....non-life from watts being depleted....

Please, which soundtrack has demand for such peaks in all channels at the exact same instant. I want to check it out, if I have that in the library. Otherwise it is a waste of time talking hypotheticals that has not happened or will happen.

.....distortion blows speakers, not watts.


Speakers make their own distortion, lots of it as you drive it hard. Did you know they check subs with 10% distortion limits???

Mtrycrafts, you know I didn't mean anything

Hey, we are having a friendly discussion, or a friendly disagreement



Sir....watts in reserve sure isn't.....


Watts in reserve is useless unless you demand it. If you don't clip a receiver at 100 watts, no amount of reserve will help.

.....what you hear, suddenly has more musicality, and the "lows" are what makes you start bobbin' that head and tappin' that toe..


Here we go, subjective on me

Do it DBT, not clipping the amps.

.. will notice the increase in the musicality of the music right off also..

Is she somehow immune to bias???



reference levels, is why you do this,


Not everyone listens at reference levels with 105 dB peaks.

.....Mtrycrafts, I didn't read much of this exploded thing....no need....I know what headroom does to peaks, lows, and actually the full range.....

 

[mulester7]

You cannot bring the mains to life if the low driver cannot deliver, no matter how many watts you use.

.....you walk in darkness, O Great Samurai....your swords are super-glued in their sheaths.....

 

[PENG]

The Studio series speakers impedance can dip low at certain frequencies, but not much lower than 4 ohms. Based on the published spec as well as the Audiohoics review test results, the 4600 should have enough clean dynamic power to handle those occasions.

Regardless, for those who believe they heard that "huge" or "major" improvements via an external amp even though they already own a good receiver such as the RX-V2500 or RX-V4600, you are not going to convince them otherwise. They spent the money on the amps and enjoy the perceived better sound they obvious heard. For those who could not hear enough improvements, they may consider spending their money on speaker upgrade instead. It may cost more, but I believe there is a greater chance the perceived sound improvement will be more significant.

 

[Doug917]

The difference I experience in the lows were not just percieved, but measured. After adding the Outlaw 755 amps which drive all my speakers and subs, I had to go into the parametric EQ in the RX-V2500 and actually lower the bass at several frequencies to achieve the same SPL levles at those frequencies before adding the amps. So.. yes, I will argue that an amp with more watts and headroom will give better stronger reproduction of the lows. If I would have just had to turn the level of the speakers down, I wouldn't post this. However, having to turn down individual frequecies, I know the amp provides mor power at low frequencies than the internal amps in the RX-V2500. I have not looked at the highs or mids in this manner because I believe most problems in a room are below 800Hz. The mids do sound more natural to me though, especially voices, and the highs do sound more open and airy.

 

[Wrk_hrd2Play_hr]

Thanks everyone for your responses, the debate is an interesting one with strong opinions from both camps.

I should clarify one point....while I have heard no audible clipping whatsoever, sometime when listening to multi channel music (DVD-A & SACD) and I'm in the -5db range on the volume control (believe the range on the 4600 goes from -80db to +16db), I have noticed that the front display on the Yammy tends to flicker in sync with the hard hitting lows. I usually always lower the volume to where I see no flickering (generally anything above -9db on the volume control addresses this). This may not have anything to do with the amplification capabilities of the 4600 but rather (and I guessing here) the line AC line voltage not remaining stable.

So, I'll add another twist to the mix, how would one address the issue above?

One more point, despite what all the white papers say about tower speakers interacting with subs etc, to MY EARS the Studio 100s sound best when run LARGE i.e. no bass management. CC & Surrounds are set at SMALL and crossed over at 90Hz.

Tks

 

[Doug917]

I run each of my amps through a line conditioner on a dedicated 15 amp circuit. The only things on each circuit are 1 line conditioner and 1 amp. This allows for the maximum amount of clean power for each amp. You may want to look into a line conditioner if you are not using one. You might also be able to move some of your components (tv or projector, etc- as these use a lot of power) to another circuit.

 

[Wrk_hrd2Play_hr]

I run each of my amps through a line conditioner on a dedicated 15 amp circuit. The only things on each circuit are 1 line conditioner and 1 amp. This allows for the maximum amount of clean power for each amp. You may want to look into a line conditioner if you are not using one. You might also be able to move some of your components (tv or projector, etc- as these use a lot of power) to another circuit.

At present all my components are plugged into a Monster HTS 1000 MKII PowerCenter. I'm utilizing 5 inlets (Mits DLP RPTV, Yammy 4600, Denon DVD2910, Sony VCR, Xbox) that plug into a single outlet. Could this be the cause of my problems?

In determining whether an outlet is on different circuit, would the circuit have to terminate to a separate breaker switch on the breaker switchboard to truly be considered a separate circuit?

Tks again

 

[Doug917]

That could be part of your problem. You may also want to see how many watts/amps the power center will actually let the 4600 draw. It could be an issue with the receiver as well. I have never take my 2600 above -10dB when not using the external amps as this volume was insane, so I don't know if my Yammy does the same thing or not.

Yes, to be a different circuit, the outlet would have to be located on a path connected to a different circuit breaker.

 

[PENG]

I had my 3805 up to the + range and there was no flicker. My speakers have lower sensitivity than the Studio 100's and minimum impedance of 4 ohms (may be the Studio's dip lower). In any case, if you do need to turn your volume up to the -5 area then I think it is a good idea to get an amp. Your receiver will appreciate the outside help.

Doug, when I said perceive, I did not mean it was not real. I was referring to the perceived magnitude of difference in sound, i.e. huge/big/major/subtle etc. By the way, I also used a SPL to calibrate check my system with or without the external amp. In my case, I did not have to do anything with the PEQ, but then my components are not the same as yours.

 

[PENG]

In determining whether an outlet is on different circuit, would the circuit have to terminate to a separate breaker switch on the breaker switchboard to truly be considered a separate circuit?

Tks again

That is correct. You may find that each circuit breaker feeds as much as 6 outlets. Just make sure your Yammie is plugged into an outlet that belongs to a group that you don't typically plug in any high power consumers such as a large screen TV, a high power subwoofer, high wattage lights (e.g. 300W halogen) or any small applicances. At -5, and with your Studio's set to large, the Yammie could possibly draw some transient currents as high as 10A or more. That could cause the flickers, especially if you have other high demand consumers on the same circuit.

 

[smokey007]

i had the onkyo 701 reciever. added a mca30 amp to it a year ago. recently i upgraded to the avm30 and another mca30. the reason i did get an amp for the reciever is at high levels it was clipping. but i did find a improvement in sound after it was added. But if your receiver isn't having trouble handling the load why bother to add an amp. save your money. or look at speakers or seprates.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Regardless, for those who believe they heard that "huge" or "major" improvements via an external amp even though they already own a good receiver such as the RX-V2500 or RX-V4600, you are not going to convince them otherwise. They spent the money on the amps and enjoy the perceived better sound they obvious heard. .

All these discussions if for the people just reading posts, or other new posters. Certainly closed minds will not be opened

 

[mulester7]

the debate is an interesting one with strong opinions from both camps.

.....and the strong negative opinions were based on what?.....

.....guys, a friend told me one time that a THICK, JUICY, MEDIUM-RARE RIB-EYE STEAK served with melting pats of butter on top was better than hamburger....THIS COULD ""NOT"" BE TRUE!!....now, I'll be quick to admit, I'VE NEVER EXPERIENCED A RIB-EYE STEAK, but it makes PERFECT SENSE in MY mind that hamburger is just as good or better, since hamburger meat has such a large amount of VERSITILITY and MEATICALITY, haha....SO, MY FRIEND ""MUST"" BE WRONG!!!!.....

.....boys, I'm done with this....power your speakers with 2 watts a channel if you wish......

 

[Brian JB]

MCA 20 MCA 50 w/ Studio 100s

Yes (a John Lennon Quote, to be sure, but answers the post's question)
Subjectively, objectively... leave product name behind & let your senses determine audible perception.

For me, bi-amping passively, horizontanial configuration, has given our family sonic along w/DVD video enjoyment beyond current receiver capability.
Brian

 

[Wrk_hrd2Play_hr]

.....boys, I'm done with this....power your speakers with 2 watts a channel if you wish......

Well...for what its worth thanks for your input.....its appreciated. Sorry you got so worked about the topic......I think a healthy debate is just that....healthy.

Gene DelaSalle....where are you on this?....Figured you've reviewed the 4600 extensively and hence, might have some insight....or is it too sticky a topic to touch! (in which case, I understand).

 

[mulester7]

Well...for what its worth thanks for your input.....its appreciated. Sorry you got so worked about the topic......I think a healthy debate is just that....healthy.

.....WorkHard2PlayHard, I meant nothing hateful at all, I was only expressing confusion I guess....I just don't understand how some people with NO basis to comment jump in there negatively....a debate is one thing, but this is a cut and dried issue....and the issue/question is, does headroom bring clarity and life to what is reproduced, especially at reference levels?....sorry to come across wrongly, but I guess I meant it, if someone wants to power their speakers with 2 watts a channel, that's their business......

 

[Brian JB]

MCA 20/50 w/ Studio 100s

Yes (a John Lennon Quote, for sure, but answers the post's question)
Subjectively, objectively... leave product name behind & let your senses determine audible perception.

For me, bi-amping passively, horizontal configuration, has given our family sonic along w/DVD audio anlong with video enjoyment beyond current receiver capability.
Brian