Will my setup benefit by adding an Anthem MCA20 or 30?

W

Wrk_hrd2Play_hr

Audioholic Intern
My current setup is comprised of the following:

Paradigm Studio 100s v3. (Mains)
Paradigm Studio CC470 (Center)
Paradigm Studio ADP470s (Surround)
Paradigm Sub PW2100

All (aside from the sub)......powered by a Yamaha RX-V4600. I am contemplating adding an Anthem MCA 20 to power the 100s (letting the 4600 handle the CC470 & ADPs) or an MCA30 to power the 100s & CC470 (letting the 4600 drive the ADPs only). The MCA20 is a bit stronger (all channels driven) at 200wpc vs. the MCA30 at 180wpc.

Will I be able to tell the difference sonically by adding the MCAs or am I just buying additional insurance in the form of headroom and reduced chance of clipping induced speaker damage? Would the MCA20 make more sense or the MCA30 (Mains + Center)

Thanks
 
M

Mobius

Junior Audioholic
I am sure others might have different opinions on this but I feel that adding an amp and using the receiver as a pre/pro makes a big difference. At least that's what my experience was when I made the jump. If those are the two amps you're interested in, personally I would go with the 3 channel and run the rest of your 5.1 or 7.1 setup off the receiver. I don't think you'll notice any difference between an 180watt or 200watt amp, there however may be some other reasons that going with the 2 channel amp might be better like if you plan on adding an MCA50 later on to complete a 7.1 setup.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
About a year ago I A/B'ed a Yamaha RX-V2400 and an Anthem Separate system (can't remember the model number but its definitely the high end model) driving a pair of Studio 100 V3. I did use my own CD's, one jazz and one classical. Subjectively, I thought the Anthem produced a more detailed sound but I was not confident that I could pass a double blind test. It is likely that some people can identify (hear) subtle differences clearly. You are going to have to find out for yourself if you can hear enough difference to spend the extra money.

One thing for sure, I can hear the difference between the Studios and the Signatures (even the S2 sounds better) easily.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Wrk_hrd2Play_hr said:
My current setup is comprised of the following:

Paradigm Studio 100s v3. (Mains)
Paradigm Studio CC470 (Center)
Paradigm Studio ADP470s (Surround)
Paradigm Sub PW2100

All (aside from the sub)......powered by a Yamaha RX-V4600. I am contemplating adding an Anthem MCA 20 to power the 100s (letting the 4600 handle the CC470 & ADPs) or an MCA30 to power the 100s & CC470 (letting the 4600 drive the ADPs only). The MCA20 is a bit stronger (all channels driven) at 200wpc vs. the MCA30 at 180wpc.

Will I be able to tell the difference sonically by adding the MCAs or am I just buying additional insurance in the form of headroom and reduced chance of clipping induced speaker damage? Would the MCA20 make more sense or the MCA30 (Mains + Center)

Thanks

What is wrong with what you have now? Or what perceived problems do you have? What are you trying to achieve with the change? How loud do you listen?
Unless you are taxing the receiver now to its limits, unlikely, no reason to believe a real benefit. Easy to get perceived changes as perception is not always reality :D
 
W

Wrk_hrd2Play_hr

Audioholic Intern
mtrycrafts said:
What is wrong with what you have now? Or what perceived problems do you have? What are you trying to achieve with the change? How loud do you listen?
Unless you are taxing the receiver now to its limits, unlikely, no reason to believe a real benefit. Easy to get perceived changes as perception is not always reality :D

Simple....nothing wrong now. Looking to achieve an improvement in sound quality and better control over the bass drivers in the mains. While I do listen loud, I have not approached the limits i.e. clipping with the 4600.
 
W

Wrk_hrd2Play_hr

Audioholic Intern
Its posts such as this one that have got me thinking.

Jason Coleman said:
Same boat...Same gear...

I bought our Studio 100 v3's and then picked up the Denon 3805. The Studio 100s, while very efficient speakers, dip down below 4 ohms when run full range and therefore need more power than the 3805 can deliver with ease. I ran our setup for over a year before adding an Anthem MCA-20 (225 wpc) for the front end, and the difference is staggering! The sound is incredibly clear and concise and effortless...whatever that means. The power is just there for the taking! It's just crisp and clean and clear. We're also running the CC-570 and ADP-470 speakers, and the Servo-15 subwoofer directly from the 3805 and hope to add rear surrounds (maybe Studio 20 or 40 or 470) in the future.

You'll definitely benefit from the additional power of an outboard amp. Just because the 3805 can't drive the whole farmload without strain isn't a knock on the 3805...it's still the best bang-for-the-buck AVR out there! It just needs a little help when driving a serious system!

Jason
 
S

smokey007

Audioholic Intern
i went with a mca30 with my reciever. big difference in sound to my ears. highs are much more detailed.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Wrk_hrd2Play_hr said:
Its posts such as this one that have got me thinking.
Be careful, many people claimed they heard the differences, some even heard big/huge differences (improvements) that you are looking for, but there are many who claimed they didn't. You may, and you may not. Before you spent the money you should find out for yourself by doing some A/B if not DBT. For me, after spending C$4.5K on upgrading my front speakers last year, I am still going to upgrade them one more time before I would consider replacing my 3805 and 2 ch amp combo to separates.
 
W

Wrk_hrd2Play_hr

Audioholic Intern
smokey007 said:
i went with a mca30 with my reciever. big difference in sound to my ears. highs are much more detailed.
What receiver did you mate the MCA30 with? If the amplification in the receiver was not good to begin with, I could see how one would notice a decent difference. The Yammy 4600 is supposed to be a very decent receiver.

Tks
 
Doug917

Doug917

Full Audioholic
I recently mated a pair of Outlaw 755 (200W X 5) amps with my Yamaha 2500. The result...amazing. The most differenece was noticed in the bass. It was much, much tighter and stronger. At $1149 each, these amps are a steal right now with the new models coming out soon. They also have the 770 (200W X7) for $1599. I had read many great reviews about the Outlaws and decide to take the plunge. I was teetering between the Outlaws and the Emotiva. At nearly half the price of the Emotiva, I decided I would take a chance with the 755's. I have not been dissapointed. They have helped my sound in many more areas than I was expecting. Just a heads up from one Yammy owner to another.

Doug
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Doug917 said:
I recently mated a pair of Outlaw 755 (200W X 5) amps with my Yamaha 2500. The result...amazing. The most difference was noticed in the bass. It was much, much tighter and stronger.
.....well, fancy that sincere report....it seems we've had the same report the last couple of months....about 786,876 times, and that's good....Doug, if one would try 500 X 5 at 8, they would need to be prepared to pass out down both legs plumb into their tennis shoes....I don't mean !LOUD! either....the low end is what you'll notice most, but the highs are cleaner and crisper with more transparency and live presence....slave amps with serious headroom are little more than idleing, when surround receivers are approaching or attaining "SPLAT-SMEAR"....and, of course, "SPLAT-SMEAR" means "distortion", which is the ARCH-ENEMY of our speakers....a surround receiver has one transformer supplying current to either 5 or 7 hungry mouths, which makes for a skinny situation......
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Wrk_hrd2Play_hr said:
Its posts such as this one that have got me thinking.

I looked for the specs on that studio 100, not sure if I found the right one. But it indicates 8 ohms. This is a nominal impedance. It will exhibit above and below this.
Since you have not experienced clipping, I don't see a problem with your setup. What do you perceive the problem to be with the low driver? Most likely it is a misguided perception only as perception can be unreliable and one doesn't know when.

If you question the sound, you may want a sub? Improve room acousics or a different line of speakers. Amps rarely improve the setup if you are not now experiencing frequent clipping.

Don't look for a solution to a non existing problem :D
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
mtrycrafts said:
Amps rarely improve the setup if you are not now experiencing frequent clipping.
.....Mtrycrafts, I see a large pie hitting you in the face on this statement....you are NOT speaking with experience....did you think Jason Coleman, Mobius, Doug917, Smokey007, and others were just making it up that slave amps brought a drastic change over a receiver?......
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
My 2 cents.

When I was running Paradigm Studio 40v2's I started with a NAD T751 receiver. I never approached clipping or pushed the amps. But when I added a Rotel RB 1080 amp (200w) there was a big difference in bass control and weight. Especially with hard hitting music with alot of bass, and movies with big action sequences.

So IMO there are differences when adding large slave amps. Especially when there well designed like the Anthem amps are.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....guys, the difference is....watts, in reserve, for spl peaks, and the quick and timely reproduction of the lows....the peaks and sudden low tones are met with 500 watts of availability, or 200, and that availability only shares the food with one other sibling from the Golden Transformer.....

.....if you have a peak of 80 or 100 watts to the speakers, with a surround receiver, you're either AT the end of the road, all channels continuous especially, or only have a little bit left, to react with any authority, to the peak or the low, and it probably won't be enough to effecively handle the peak or the low, now you see what I have against surround receivers....yes, distortion, when you clip the amp section with six other amp sections sucking the transformer dry....or....non-life from watts being depleted.....

.....distortion blows speakers, not watts....speakers rated 150 can take 300 with no distortion involved.....Mtrycrafts, you know I didn't mean anything but that you obviously speak on this subject with not having experienced it....it ain't ALLLLL snake oil, Sir....watts in reserve sure isn't.....

.....what you hear, suddenly has more musicality, and the "lows" are what makes you start bobbin' that head and tappin' that toe....she will notice the increase in the musicality of the music right off also....your speakers will sound better at less than reference levels....but reference levels, is why you do this, good grief, does it sound better....three or four have used the word amazing....I join them, as to the music coming to life, tight, with an increased level of musicality or live presence......
 
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mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....and I want to add this, on a different post....there's lotsa' guys here who think their answer is in a particular sub to bring the system to life....all I can say is, get some headroom to your main's regiment, bring it to life there, and it's a whole lot easier to not sub upgrade like some do putters....you need less sub when the main's regiment comes to life....a sub shouldn't be center-stage anyway, only an extension of....yeah, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night......
 
Doug917

Doug917

Full Audioholic
Mulester is right on this. I use Klipsch speakers across the front and Def Tech for surrounds. I probably use only a few watts with the average sensitivity of my speakers coming in around 95dB across the front and 90dB for the rears. The internal amps in the Yamaha RX-V2500 will easily drive the speakers without even a hint of distortion. However, when the external amps are added dynamics and control that were not previously there come to life. I haven't used any amps above 200 watts per channel, so I don't know from experience if it gets any better as Mulester says with 400+ watt amps, but I couldn't see it hurting anything.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Doug917 said:
I haven't used any amps above 200 watts per channel, so I don't know from experience if it gets any better as Mulester says with 400+ watt amps, but I couldn't see it hurting anything.
.....Doug, reference levels, is where you will MOST notice the differences in the amount of headroom as per musicality and live presence....I don't know what for sure would be overkill....200 at 8 with only two or three channels, but even 5, being fed by the "right type" of single transformer would be a VAST improvement over 70 or 80 X 5 or 7 all channels driven continuous, but standard two-channel slave amps, or monoblocks, would be what I would go for....is Arkansas gettin' that butt whipped or what?......
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7 said:
.....Mtrycrafts, I see a large pie hitting you in the face on this statement....you are NOT speaking with experience....did you think Jason Coleman, Mobius, Doug917, Smokey007, and others were just making it up that slave amps brought a drastic change over a receiver?......

Oh, now you are trying to justify this by what others subjectively think? Not very good data on your part.

I wonder if any one of them really compared it under DBT protocol? I seriously doubt it. Hence, the reliability of their thinking process is questionable.
He is not clipping. Obviously he is not driving his amp to levels he is listeing to. So, please tell me how will he benefit by more power he will not use??????
 

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