DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[Chu Gai]

I'd be surprised if he hasn't been interviewing and subsequently retained an attorney. Given that as a reasonable premise, in all honesty, what can he say to the public at large? As to his sundry excuses that he's given over the years, I'd hope that somebody, not me for sure, would one day tablulate all the excuses and dates that've been given over the years. Maybe put it up on the web on some kind of a calendar. Something to keep in mind is that while MLS is the stated President of AV123, his wife and step-daughter also have roles. I say this not to accuse them of any wrong doing. I'm not. I say it because it's not unreasonable to think that any investigations done by agencies may look to leave no stone unturned. It's bad enough that the finger seems to be pointing in one direction. I'd really hate for there to be additional people.

 

[cschang]

I was just reading the TCA thread. It is interesting that some, despite the facts, still want to believe that the "underfunding" of raffles was a mistake. It was done multiple times, how can that be a mistake?

 

[MinusTheBear]

I was just reading the TCA thread. It is interesting that some, despite the facts, still want to believe that the "underfunding" of raffles was a mistake. It was done multiple times, how can that be a mistake?

This is just the nature of an apologist. It is the same people that defended late deliveries of product, damaged products, poor quality control, poor communication and all around bad business practices in my opinion when compared to other companies.

Way would an apologist change their stance now? In fact I don't even blame them . It would be admitting they were wrong and who likes to admit that. Nobody!

 

[NicolasKL]

I was just reading the TCA thread. It is interesting that some, despite the facts, still want to believe that the "underfunding" of raffles was a mistake. It was done multiple times, how can that be a mistake?

The level of ignorance of your own finances it would require to spend 10/20/30/50+? thousand dollars of someone elses money without realizing it is mind boggling. I don't see how it could be a mistake either, and even if it was unintentional that doesn't really make it any less morally repugnant (or any less illegal, I would think).

 

[Chu Gai]

Well I can't see how it'd be a mistake given the frequency and time span. He seems to have needed money for something he was doing over a fairly long stretch of time that the business could not provide. It also seems to me that over time, overall quality rather than improving became worse. I'll lay the blame on that with Cali, which I consider a fiasco, and the move away from Mr. Pu to some unknown supplier(s). In all my conversations, all my readings, I've not seen anyone saying anything along the lines that he looked blitzed on anything or that he gambled. So, while it may be presumptious on my part, I don't consider those forms of addictions as likely causes. There had to be something else going on that was significant enough to divert all those funds over such a long stretch of time.

 

[Chu Gai]

Intent to steal? Well, if I'm in a room with other people, and in the course of walking around, I happen upon a wallet and there's no one around, am I stealing if I pick it up and pocket it? I didn't go there with an intent to steal. Rather an opportunity presented itself. If it happened once, was discovered, and quickly rectified, I'd buy the spin story. I really would. But the moment he decided, phuck it, it became intent. No one found out about the first raffle until years later. No one knows about the second for BruceR. As time passed and he realized that he'd gotten away with it, the raffles came with increasing frequency especially those Khabarovsk raffles which were rapid fire.
The one raffle that I recall that never seemed to end was the one for the Children's Hospital in Denver. Most of the others ended. The goal wasn't met in all the cases, but prizes were awarded. Well except for that guy who said he won an MFW-15 or something and never got anything.

 

[gonk]

I've been paying less and less attention to the online chatter about the raffles in recent days (something that actually started before I was permanently banned from AV123 some time last Friday), and I hadn't noticed Buzz's comment at TCA about the time involved in some of these raffles. Some raffles did take a while, but when I was looking through old threads it seemed that most reached a conclusion in a few months (although neither LS-4 raffle actually sold all its tickets and both are still technically open, albeit on hold). The re-raffle for Derek was closed after maybe two or three months even though it didn't sell all of the tickets. However, so what if the money comes in over the course of months or even years? In that scenario, there should have been two things happening. First, the money should have been delivered in batches (maybe every month or so) - not sitting in Mark's bank earning him interest income or getting "borrowed" to be spent on other things. Second, the money should have been isolated in a separate account. I could see an argument that the first raffle might have been handled without a separate account out of convenience, but once they started running a ton of them they really needed to open a dedicated bank account for use with the raffles. Either of these two actions would have prevented any mistaken "underfunding."

There's really no viable excuse I can find to explain away the reported instances of undelivered money. Maybe there's one I haven't thought of? It can't be ruled out, I guess, as we're dealing with fragmentary information. Unfortunately, the pattern that seems to have emerged (with multiple raffles impacted over the course of years, some starting before others - even others supporting the same cause - were paid out) makes such an explanation difficult for me to conceive of.

 

[Chu Gai]

Gonk, you weren't given a 1 or 2 week time out? You were permanently banned?! Did you get an email saying that? It must've been your other writings elsewhere that marked you as an enemy of the state. An agitator. Not a party loyalist. Vhee haf vays uf dealing mit such tieren. Banishment to Khabarovsk!!

 

[gonk]

I think Jed M got banned, too. I don't know if he got the permanent treatment...

 

[NicolasKL]

As a small contractor, I collect taxes that I remit to the gov't. I have a separate bank account. My old boss just tossed everything in his checking account. Dumb but not culpable... He'd often spend some of it not really knowing what was his and what wasn't...

Spending it isn't culpable, but I'm guessing not paying it to the government every year is.

 

[Chu Gai]

I think Jed M got banned, too. I don't know if he got the permanent treatment...

Well, you can always apologize Gonk and promise that in the future you'll say things like this.

Wow, I wish I had those speakers!
Those speakers are worthless without pics.
I'm sure Mark & Kyle can help you.
If you're having trouble, call Mark and he'll answer all your questions and get you up and going.
If all you're going to do is harp on the same thing then make a recording and play it back for yourself.
AV123 in case you didn't know, led the charge into the internet revolution.
All companies have problems, it's how they deal with them that sets AV123 and Mark apart from the rest.
Where else can you call and get to speak to the president of the company? Do you think Steve Jobs is going to take your call?
These speakers compare to the best from Paradigm, PSB, or KEF!
There are people who've heard these speakers and ones from Wilson and do you know what they chose? AV123!!! Take that in your pipe and smoke it.

Another good approach Gonk is to follow some of the moderators around like Skeeter. When they say something nice, follow immediately with something nice too.

 

[Jed M]

I was banned for about a week. It was a permanent ban but they reversed it. I am trying to remain level headed about this whole thing even though few things in my life have upset me as much as this has. I can't think of any thing that would disgust me more than taking advantage of the sick and dying. You can do a lot of crap that I will look the other way because I readily admit I am not even close to perfect, but stealing from charities is just morally reprehensible. Its like people who beat women. There is such a level of shame involved with these types of crimes that it makes my stomach turn. I am just trying to keep my temper lately regarding this subject and that is usually easiest when I don't post.

 

[stevo238]

Well, you can always apologize Gonk and promise that in the future you'll say things like this.

Wow, I wish I had those speakers!
Those speakers are worthless without pics.
I'm sure Mark & Kyle can help you.
If you're having trouble, call Mark and he'll answer all your questions and get you up and going.
If all you're going to do is harp on the same thing then make a recording and play it back for yourself.
AV123 in case you didn't know, led the charge into the internet revolution.
All companies have problems, it's how they deal with them that sets AV123 and Mark apart from the rest.
Where else can you call and get to speak to the president of the company? Do you think Steve Jobs is going to take your call?
These speakers compare to the best from Paradigm, PSB, or KEF!
There are people who've heard these speakers and ones from Wilson and do you know what they chose? AV123!!! Take that in your pipe and smoke it.

Another good approach Gonk is to follow some of the moderators around like Skeeter. When they say something nice, follow immediately with something nice too.

And let's not forget-

"Where else do you get to sit in on the design process from start to finish" and similarly,

"With most companies we wouldn't have even known about it (insert AV123 product) until it was ready to ship."

 

[randyb]

Well, you can always apologize Gonk and promise that in the future you'll say things like this.

Wow, I wish I had those speakers!
Those speakers are worthless without pics.
I'm sure Mark & Kyle can help you.
If you're having trouble, call Mark and he'll answer all your questions and get you up and going.
If all you're going to do is harp on the same thing then make a recording and play it back for yourself.
AV123 in case you didn't know, led the charge into the internet revolution.
All companies have problems, it's how they deal with them that sets AV123 and Mark apart from the rest.
Where else can you call and get to speak to the president of the company? Do you think Steve Jobs is going to take your call?
These speakers compare to the best from Paradigm, PSB, or KEF!
There are people who've heard these speakers and ones from Wilson and do you know what they chose? AV123!!! Take that in your pipe and smoke it.

Another good approach Gonk is to follow some of the moderators around like Skeeter. When they say something nice, follow immediately with something nice too.

All I can say is I love you guys

 

[cschang]

All I can say is I love you guys

Hugs!

.....

 

[Chu Gai]

All I can say is I love you guys

Hugs!

.....

All the best...
My every being just hurts...
More at the appropriate moment...
Thanks...
Humbly...
I love you guys...

I would just like to remind everyone that I am watching and if this thread gets out of hand it will be closed.

Thanks!
__________________
Kyle Steidle

And lest we forget, Steidle said in that thread that got closed, people can talk to Mark at the RMAF. Now, that's what I call having a set of cujones. I'm waiting for the photo op with Fabrikant. Seeing them hugging, crying, is just something I'd love to see.

I just checked the Stereophile RMAF blog. Read the comments before someone deletes them. This is hysterical!

 

[cschang]

RMAF will certainly be interesting if some touch subjects come up. I'd love to hear the side-steps.

I don't think Dave F. is going to be there, but a pair of Sierras will be in the Virtue Audio room.

 

[andy_c]

RMAF will certainly be interesting if some touch subjects come up. I'd love to hear the side-steps.

I don't think Dave F. is going to be there, but a pair of Sierras will be in the Virtue Audio room.

Well, neither AV123 nor Perpetual Technologies are on the RMAF exhibitor list, but Ascend Acoustics is.

 

[cschang]

Well, neither AV123 nor Perpetual Technologies are on the RMAF exhibitor list, but Ascend Acoustics is.

Right..the same room as Virtue One. Maybe Dave F. will be there, but that is not how I interpreted his post on the Ascend Forum.

 

[randyb]

All the best...
My every being just hurts...
More at the appropriate moment...
Thanks...
Humbly...
I love you guys...



And lest we forget, Steidle said in that thread that got closed, people can talk to Mark at the RMAF. Now, that's what I call having a set of cujones. I'm waiting for the photo op with Fabrikant. Seeing them hugging, crying, is just something I'd love to see.

I just checked the Stereophile RMAF blog. Read the comments before someone deletes them. This is hysterical!

One thing we can all love is the human spirit especially when it is couched in a little humour. Great stuff.