Yamaha RX-V3900 vrs Marantz SR8002

[PENG]

I went from an Onkyo 805 to a SR8002 and there was definitely a subtle difference in SQ to me. This is just my subjective thoughts on the issue.

That fair and believable, especially if the comparison was not done in a controlled fashion; and/or EQs were involved instead of using pure direct mode. At least you use adjectives such as "subtle", and "subjective", instead of "day and night", "HK is warm", "Denon is dull/neutral", "Sony is thin/bright" etc. Its those generic hearsay kind of things I do not buy.

 

[Superfly]

If you really can hear the difference between different amplifiers (properly functioning and operated within their design limits, and set up properly), you can make some money. For a discussion of this, see:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57397

No one has ever been able to demonstrate the ability under proper testing conditions.

WOW, I didn't realize this was such a heated issue around here.

Ok I read the review but it only pertains to amplifiers.
so what is the big fuss???? did you read my post? I get the impression you didn't. Starting a argument without trying to understand the post doesn't help your view.

Are you saying the what makes a receiver sound good is the Amplifier only??.

I still stand by my post the sony 5400es sounds better than the pioneer sc-07 ( ok I will add to my ears if it makes you feel better) I Had them in my house I don't have allegances with Brand X or Y It is my opinion. If you want to help try suggesting an alternative like "Lordoftherings" has.


also to add a quote from the same article :

"Does this mean all amps sound the same in a normal install?
No. Richard Clark is very careful to say that amps usually do not sound the same in the real world. The gain setting of an amplifier can make huge differences in how an amplifier sounds, as can details like how crossovers or other filters are set."

 

[Superfly]

Funny you mentioned the word "wife". I tried doing A/B with friends more than once, and none of them could ever tell the difference, not even the time when we A/B between a lowly RX-V2400 and Anthem separates using Paradigm Studio speakers. (I mentioned this many times because it was my true experience that surprised me) Now if the 2400 was pushed beyond its power limit then I am sure hope the Anthem would have trumped the 2400.

Back to the "wife" thing, I have tried enough time to know that if I ever ask my wife to try hearing the difference again between any amps the answer would invariably be "no difference whatsoever". That was the answer I typically got in the past even when I thought the difference was quite noticeable.

By the way please excuse me for asking a stupid question, but did you always do your A/B listenings in pure direct mode?

Peng, It's not a stupid question,
I have run it in direct mode but I find the receivers sounds better when you are running stereo. my intention was not to debate AMP's in a receiver, I'm still not sure how it went that way. I thought I was clear when I said receiver

 

[DSANTI]

sorry to add more questions to this but I'm guessing having an yamaha rxv1900 with an xpa-3, there would be no difference in getting an rxv3900 with an xpa-3. Am I wrong?

how about the same scenario with the xpa-3 but between the marantz sr6003 and the sr8002? would that be different because the 8002 is built different with the toroidal transformer and copper plated chassis. Forgive me I don't understand how components in a receiver work. Im just trying to repeat what I've read which I dont completely understand. thanks

 

[Lordoftherings]

sorry to add more questions to this but I'm guessing having an yamaha rxv1900 with an xpa-3, there would be no difference in getting an rxv3900 with an xpa-3. Am I wrong?

how about the same scenario with the xpa-3 but between the marantz sr6003 and the sr8002? would that be different because the 8002 is built different with the toroidal transformer and copper plated chassis. Forgive me I don't understand how components in a receiver work. Im just trying to repeat what I've read which I dont completely understand. thanks

I'll say your ears are the best judge. You don't really know until you try yourself in your own room with your own equipment.
Each one of us has different set of ears and different listening preferences.
There is no absolute.

But one thing is for sure, the more listening experience you have, with several different products, the more differences you can hear or not hear.

Adding an external amp, is in my opinion always beneficial, but not necessary the ultimate way to go. Getting better speakers, and acoustic room treatments are. Then, you can choose the right amplifier for the job, or receiver.

Bob

Note: Respect of other's opinions is always the better way, because you not only respect your own ears, but you also respect theirs; and you also show good manners.

 

[DSANTI]

I'll say your ears are the best judge. You don't really know until you try yourself in your own room with your own equipment.
Each one of us has different set of ears and different listening preferences.
There is no absolute.

But one thing is for sure, the more listening experience you have, with several different products, the more differences you can hear or not hear.

Adding an external amp, is in my opinion always beneficial, but not necessary the ultimate way to go. Getting better speakers, and acoustic room treatments are. Then, you can choose the right amplifier for the job, or receiver.

Bob

Note: Respect of other's opinions is always the better way, because you not only respect your own ears, but you also respect theirs; and you also show good manners.

Thanks Bob,
I definitely respect yours as well everyone elses opinions and understand that everyones opinion on each matter is different. that is why I would love to do what you mentioned- trying out the different receivers in my own room but the only way i can do that is to order online since i dont have a marantz dealer locally. I am familiar with the yamaha sound so that is why want to try the marantz in my home to compare them. although i heard the 6003 and not the 8002 the room was much bigger and different speakers were used plus no store would have an xpa-3 of course.
i am happy i finally found a place online that will let me return it so now i can hear it with my own ears in my home but I just wanted to see what anyone thought about trying the 6003 vs 8002 in my home. i don't want to order both at the same time cause that will be a big chunk of my credit card used just for comparing purposes. i also don't want to try one then exchange it to try the other cause then it wouldn't be a straight comparison and it would take much time shipping back and forth. i can order one right now and if i like it then could keep it. so again im stuck between trying the 6003 or the 8002 since i can't do both and i might end up keeping it. the xpa-3 will be used with whichever receiver i order and the price difference isn't very important but if i can save a bit if others think the 8002 will be the same, then why not. sorry and thanks again

 

[Pyrrho]

WOW, I didn't realize this was such a heated issue around here.

Ok I read the review but it only pertains to amplifiers.
so what is the big fuss???? did you read my post? I get the impression you didn't. Starting a argument without trying to understand the post doesn't help your view.

Are you saying the what makes a receiver sound good is the Amplifier only??.

I still stand by my post the sony 5400es sounds better than the pioneer sc-07 ( ok I will add to my ears if it makes you feel better) I Had them in my house I don't have allegances with Brand X or Y It is my opinion. If you want to help try suggesting an alternative like "Lordoftherings" has.


also to add a quote from the same article :

"Does this mean all amps sound the same in a normal install?
No. Richard Clark is very careful to say that amps usually do not sound the same in the real world. The gain setting of an amplifier can make huge differences in how an amplifier sounds, as can details like how crossovers or other filters are set."

Different processors have different EQs and sound modes that obviously can make an audible difference. But that is no more than saying, if one turns up the treble on a receiver, one can hear the difference between that and leaving it in the normal position.

In the case of modern surround receivers, if one uses the internal EQ, then there may be an audible difference between two models. But in "pure direct" mode, if they are functioning properly and the amplifiers are used within their design limits, then it is unlikely that you will ever hear a difference.

Additionally, since different models in a particular manufacturer's lineup typically use different processing, it would be entirely inappropriate to generalize the sound of the processing based upon the particular brand. Usually, the upper models have more elaborate processing, which, hopefully, will be better than the more simple processing in the cheaper models. But the upshot of this is, if you are comparing one Sony with one Pioneer, you will not be able to generalize this to other Sonys and other Pioneers that use different processing.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Thanks Bob,
I definitely respect yours as well everyone elses opinions and understand that everyones opinion on each matter is different. that is why I would love to do what you mentioned- trying out the different receivers in my own room but the only way i can do that is to order online since i dont have a marantz dealer locally. I am familiar with the yamaha sound so that is why want to try the marantz in my home to compare them. although i heard the 6003 and not the 8002 the room was much bigger and different speakers were used plus no store would have an xpa-3 of course.
i am happy i finally found a place online that will let me return it so now i can hear it with my own ears in my home but I just wanted to see what anyone thought about trying the 6003 vs 8002 in my home. i don't want to order both at the same time cause that will be a big chunk of my credit card used just for comparing purposes. i also don't want to try one then exchange it to try the other cause then it wouldn't be a straight comparison and it would take much time shipping back and forth. i can order one right now and if i like it then could keep it. so again im stuck between trying the 6003 or the 8002 since i can't do both and i might end up keeping it. the xpa-3 will be used with whichever receiver i order and the price difference isn't very important but if i can save a bit if others think the 8002 will be the same, then why not. sorry and thanks again

I will then go with the Marantz SR6003, a super receiver for the price, with proven test bench results. This is a no-brainer, you'll be adding the XPA-3, and you'll save a bunch of money too; the very best of both worlds.

By the way, when I mentioned respect, I was not thinking about you; I was thinking about some other people that seems to be one-way street in their thinking. There is no such way, Audio is a vast Mutiway Freeway Highway.

 

[gqmagic]

I just was kind of wondering the same thing but between the SR8002 over the RX-V1900. Just don't want to start a new thread. I already own the 1900 though and was wondering if it would be worth the upgrade. I have had it for 6 months now and am hoping to get an improvement for 2 ch music but still have the dynamics for movie watching the the Yamaha gives me.
I am also using an XPA-3 for my front 3 speakers(paradigm studio 100s/cc-690). So another question I have since I am using an XPA-3 is would the SR6003 be good enough with the amp or is the 8002 still a better choice. I would be saving a couple of hundred bucks with the 6003 but do they have the same sound quality.. would the 6003/xpa-3 combo be the same as using the 8002 with the xpa-3. I have only heard the 6003 with B&W 600 series and with Paradigm Monitors but they didn't have the 8002 or the Studios. I'm not considering the 7002 since the 8002 is almost the same price on sale. thanks for any help

DSANTI

IMO, when you get a middle of the line equipment (6*** Marantz & your 1900 Yamaha) and then try to 'improve it' to a Top of the Line model (Marantz 8***) it usually doesn't work

It would have been better to have gotten the 8*** or the yamaha v3900 in the beginning,

 

[Lordoftherings]

^ I agree with gqmagic's above post.

If you already have the Yamaha RX-V1900, you'll do just great using it as your pre/pro, and adding the Emotiva XPA-3 to power your three front main speakers.
Do you really need that extra power?
Are your speakers that demanding?
About ther size of your room?
Your volume level preference?

Or about the Emotiva XPA-5?

 

[DSANTI]

I will then go with the Marantz SR6003, a super receiver for the price, with proven test bench results. This is a no-brainer, you'll be adding the XPA-3, and you'll save a bunch of money too; the very best of both worlds.

By the way, when I mentioned respect, I was not thinking about you; I was thinking about some other people that seems to be one-way street in their thinking. There is no such way, Audio is a vast Mutiway Freeway Highway.

thanks again for your help and suggestions. I actually called today to see about ordering the 6003 but they dont have any more and will no longer be getting them in since*004 models will be out soon. So now I am looking at a couple hundred more to try out the new receiver which might come in at the end of this month they said... The rep I spoke to suggested getting the 8002 over the 6003 or 6004 especially since the price hes got the 8002 for is close to the price the 6004. I might just do that instead of waiting. don't know if he was just trying to sell the 8002 but he said the power supply in the 8002 will make a difference even with both receivers(8002 & 6003/4) using an external amp. does that make sense? I think I'll just pull the trigger on the 8002 and if it doesn't work out- then I will only be losing $30 to ship it back.

with the whole respect thing I didn't take personal but I still wanted to say that I do respect anyones opinions good or bad especially if I am the one asking the question..
thanks again for all your help. Ill probably post back once i get a chance to compare them.

IMO, when you get a middle of the line equipment (6*** Marantz & your 1900 Yamaha) and then try to 'improve it' to a Top of the Line model (Marantz 8***) it usually doesn't work

It would have been better to have gotten the 8*** or the yamaha v3900 in the beginning,

I wish I wouldve done that right from the start too but the 1900 was just in my budget at the time.. I originally wanted the 3900 too but now some extra flow came in allowing me to do a small upgrade and I am happy with my other gear so I dont wanna touch any of that- just try to get more out of it. so soon i will find out how much of a difference there actually is, if any between ones midrange receiver to anothers higher end receiver. I know the 1900 to 3900 probably wouldnt make sense since its pretty much the same with a bit more but maybe the yamaha to marantz would be different. ill know soon enough. thanks

 

[DSANTI]

^ I agree with gqmagic's above post.

If you already have the Yamaha RX-V1900, you'll do just great using it as your pre/pro, and adding the Emotiva XPA-3 to power your three front main speakers.
Do you really need that extra power?
Are your speakers that demanding?
About ther size of your room?
Your volume level preference?

Or about the Emotiva XPA-5?

I don't now how demanding they are but im guessing hey could use good power. since I only have a 3ch amp(xpa-3) maybe everything would sound better having a 7.1 system. my room is 20x14 and i like to watch movies loud and listen to music loud. I have a v5 paradigm studio setup- studio 100,cc690 and 4 studio 20's. in a way i kind of just wanna try it out just so i know for myself and i can stop wondering if there really is any difference with the marantz since ive read and have been told that it would match better with the studios. well like i said in my above post if i dont find a difference, then $30 is worth it to find out. if there is a noticeable difference then ill decide if it is worth price difference from what my brother in law will offer me for my yamaha since he is interested in buying it. thanks again!

 

[Lordoftherings]

Now I read you loud and clear DSANTI.

Yes, get the Marantz SR8002, and the Emotiva XPA-3. Your Paradigm Reference Studio speakers want that extra power.
And the salesman at Accessories 4 Less is right on; the SR8002 is more appropriate for your situation, with a beefy power supply and it's toroidal transformer. Plus, he is right, the price is very attractive now.
And with the extra Emotiva XPA-3, powering your Studio 100s and your CC-690, they'll be singing better. Than the Marantz SR8002 will take over and power your four Studio 20s.

* With your two last posts, you made things so much clearer now.
Your brother-in-law can now have your Yammy 1900.

This is it man, that's my rec. You'll be all set, and everything with the appropriate power and sound to match these fabulous speakers of yours.

Anything else I can do for you today?

Bob

 

[PENG]

he said the power supply in the 8002 will make a difference even with both receivers(8002 & 6003/4) using an external amp. does that make sense?

No, that does not make much sense. The big toroidal transformer will not benefit the external amp that has even bigger transformer(s) in it, toroidal or not. It is possible that the 8002 has a better prepro section than the 6003/4 though.

On the other hand, I thought the prepro audio section of the RX-V1900 is the same as the RX-V3900 but I am not 100% sure. May be Bob (LOTR) could research that for you, complete with photos, that's his best! Could you not just buy the external amp and the 8002 and then decide whether you want to return the 8002 or sell the RX-V1900?

 

[DSANTI]

Thanks again Bob! you've helped a lot not just on here but Ive also found other posts by you in other threads regarding different receivers. Makes me feel even better now since i placed the order right after I last posted. Should be here by the end of this week or early next week. Pretty excited now but we'll see how it goes!

 

[PENG]

IMO, when you get a middle of the line equipment (6*** Marantz & your 1900 Yamaha) and then try to 'improve it' to a Top of the Line model (Marantz 8***) it usually doesn't work

It would have been better to have gotten the 8*** or the yamaha v3900 in the beginning,

I would agree partially, but the 8*** in this case is the 8002, that is not the top of the line model.

 

[gqmagic]

I don't now how demanding they are but im guessing hey could use good power. since I only have a 3ch amp(xpa-3) maybe everything would sound better having a 7.1 system. my room is 20x14 and i like to watch movies loud and listen to music loud. I have a v5 paradigm studio setup- studio 100,cc690 and 4 studio 20's. in a way i kind of just wanna try it out just so i know for myself and i can stop wondering if there really is any difference with the marantz since ive read and have been told that it would match better with the studios. well like i said in my above post if i dont find a difference, then $30 is worth it to find out. if there is a noticeable difference then ill decide if it is worth price difference from what my brother in law will offer me for my yamaha since he is interested in buying it. thanks again!

Sounds like a good plan!

You may have seen threads where guys say they have a big grin on their face after listening to their new sound, you're about to join them

 

[DSANTI]

No, that does not make much sense. The big toroidal transformer will not benefit the external amp that has even bigger transformer(s) in it, toroidal or not. It is possible that the 8002 has a better prepro section than the 6003/4 though.

On the other hand, I thought the prepro audio section of the RX-V1900 is the same as the RX-V3900 but I am not 100% sure. May be Bob (LOTR) could research that for you, complete with photos, that's his best!

Thats what i thought in regards to the transformer as well since the xpa-3 probably has bigger transformer. I guess I wouldn't have to get an xpa-5 which i was thinking about for the surrounds if it ever goes on sale since the 8002 will probably be more than enough for 4 studio 20's.
Sorry to keep this going but what kind of things in a pre/pro if any would make one receiver better than the other soundwise?

Could you not just buy the external amp and the 8002 and then decide whether you want to return the 8002 or sell the RX-V1900?

actually I already own an xpa-3 but thats exactly what Ill be doing- comparing the 8002 to the 1900 both using the xpa-3 so it will be more of a fair comparison and I will decide from there which one I will be keeping. This will be the only other receiver Ive ever had at home so Im real anxious to find out.


I appreciate your input again thanks

 

[Superfly]

Different processors have different EQs and sound modes that obviously can make an audible difference. But that is no more than saying, if one turns up the treble on a receiver, one can hear the difference between that and leaving it in the normal position.

In the case of modern surround receivers, if one uses the internal EQ, then there may be an audible difference between two models. But in "pure direct" mode, if they are functioning properly and the amplifiers are used within their design limits, then it is unlikely that you will ever hear a difference.

Additionally, since different models in a particular manufacturer's lineup typically use different processing, it would be entirely inappropriate to generalize the sound of the processing based upon the particular brand. Usually, the upper models have more elaborate processing, which, hopefully, will be better than the more simple processing in the cheaper models. But the upshot of this is, if you are comparing one Sony with one Pioneer, you will not be able to generalize this to other Sonys and other Pioneers that use different processing.

ok, I can understand your explanation. I will move this to another thread because I feel we are encroaching on this one.

 

[PENG]

Sorry to keep this going but what kind of things in a pre/pro if any would make one receiver better than the other soundwise?

When I listen to music I always use the pure direct mode. In that case, the quality of the preamp section and the DAC count most. I remember Audioholics had reviewed a couple of RX-V receivers (the 2500 & 2600 I think) and rated them highly with emphasis on how quiet the preamp section was. I do believe once you get to the upper middle range receiver territory, you should be able to count on their relatively transparent and linear amplification characteristics regardless of whether it is a Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo or Marantz model. Again I am only talking about listening in pure direct mode.

For multi-channel music DVDs and movies, the sound processing (EQ, DSP etc.) components become important but then only you can decide which one sounds better. For example, some people will prefer Audyssey, others will prefer YPAO.