Yamaha RX-V3900 vrs Marantz SR8002

[Superfly]

I would agree partially, but the 8*** in this case is the 8002, that is not the top of the line model.

Peng , are you saying he is better getting the 8002 and the amp? Your post isn't clear. the 8002 is the top model until you go to the AV8003 Networking AV Preamp.

 

[DSANTI]

When I listen to music I always use the pure direct mode. In that case, the quality of the preamp section and the DAC count most. I remember Audioholics had reviewed a couple of RX-V receivers (the 2500 & 2600 I think) and rated them highly with emphasis on how quiet the preamp section was. I do believe once you get to the upper middle range receiver territory, you should be able to count on their relatively transparent and linear amplification characteristics regardless of whether it is a Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo or Marantz model. Again I am only talking about listening in pure direct mode.

For multi-channel music DVDs and movies, the sound processing (EQ, DSP etc.) components become important but then only you can decide which one sounds better. For example, some people will prefer Audyssey, others will prefer YPAO.

I'm the same way with music I always use pure direct with my yamaha. So youre saying the DACs will or will not make a difference in sound quality(pure direct) between the two? sorry just a little confused. do you know what DACs each uses? couldn't find that info anywhere. and what are the differences if you happen to know?
I will also compare YPAO vs Audyssey. I was just reading a bout that as well.

 

[PENG]

Peng , are you saying he is better getting the 8002 and the amp? Your post isn't clear. the 8002 is the top model until you go to the AV8003 Networking AV Preamp.

I suggest he listens to both combinations, i.e. RX-V1900+amp and SR8002+amp, then choose the one he likes better. I don't consider the 8002 a top of the line model. I think it is equivalent to something like the Denon AVR4308, Yamaha RX-Z7, Onkyo TX-NR906 etc. It weighs 33.1 lbs and can be had for <$2,000 (even <$1,400), hardly a top Marantz model. To me, the older SR9600 is their top of the line model but there is just no replacement for it yet. I expect a top Marantz AVR to have specs and price range comparable to that of the Denon AVR5308 or Yamah RX-Z11.

In terms of current Marantz AVR models at this very moment, you are right, but I think now you know what I meant.

 

[Lordoftherings]

I'm the same way with music I always use pure direct with my yamaha. So youre saying the DACs will or will not make a difference in sound quality(pure direct) between the two? sorry just a little confused. do you know what DACs each uses? couldn't find that info anywhere. and what are the differences if you happen to know?
I will also compare YPAO vs Audyssey. I was just reading a bout that as well.

The Yammy 1900 uses the TI BB DSD-1791 Dacs.
And the Marantz 8002 uses the CL CS 4382a Dac.

Audyssey is more sophisticated and preferable in my opinion.

* But you know what DSANTI? You'll find out very soon what the 8002 is all about, then you can decide for yourself from your own set of ears.
You will make your final decision based on your personal listenig session in your own room, with your own Paradigm Reference Studio speakers (in this case, four Studio 20s, that you'll be using as your surrounds).

** The SR8002 is the top of the line from Marantz receivers.
After that, you have to go with their separates; so, you were right.

*** Do you really need pictures of the inside of your Yammy 1900, and the Marantz 8002, to compare these two? It's quite easy; just remove the top of your Yammy 1900, and have a peek inside. And when you receive the Marantz 8002, just do the same.

 

[DSANTI]

The Yammy 1900 uses the TI BB DSD-1791 Dacs.
And the Marantz 8002 uses the CL CS 4382a Dac.

Audyssey is more sophisticated and preferable in my opinion.

* But you know what DSANTI? You'll find out very soon what the 8002 is all about, then you can decide for yourself from your own set of ears.
You will make your final decision based on your personal listenig session in your own room, with your own Paradigm Reference Studio speakers (in this case, four Studio 20s, that you'll be using as your surrounds).

** The SR8002 is the top of the line from Marantz receivers.
After that, you have to go with their separates; so, you were right.

*** Do you really need pictures of the inside of your Yammy 1900, and the Marantz 8002, to compare these two? It's quite easy; just remove the top of your Yammy 1900, and have a peek inside. And when you receive the Marantz 8002, just do the same.

Thanks for the DAC info. I know I should stop asking questions and just be patient. Just a little anxious that's all.

haha no I don't need pitures that was just mentioned earlier but I wouldn't even know what I'd be looking at if I were to open it.

 

[Lordoftherings]

No sweat at all DSANTI.

 

[3db]

I'm a huge fan of Yamaha Mid level receviers

so I'm pushing for the Yamaha on this one. AVGuide gave this recevier a glowing review and here is there comment about Yamaha's YPAOI vs Audessy.

How does YPAO affect sound, and how does it compare with the characteristic sound of Audyssey systems? I would say YPAO generally smoothes and tightens up bass and lower midrange frequencies while also cleaning up small peaks and valleys in the system’s midrange, upper midrange, and treble response curves. The result, paradoxically, is a sound that’s at once smoother and more relaxed, yet also more open and intelligible—especially on movie dialog. In comparison to the Audyssey system, its seems to me that the YPAO system affords a slightly more lightly balanced, though also tighter and more focused, bass sound coupled with an every-so-slightly more forward midrange presentation that adds a subtle but welcome measure of dialog intelligibility. Differences between Audyssey and YPAO equalization are subtle, so that I’m hesitant to declare one system better than the other; both do a good job of helping to match your speakers to your room, which is the main point. I will say, though, that the longer I listened through the YPAO-treated system, the better I liked it.

The complete review..
http://www.avguide.com/review/tested-yamaha-rx-v3900-av-receiver

 

[Lordoftherings]

~ Here's now a review of the Onkyo TX-SR876 by the same author, Chris Martens.

@ http://www.avguide.com/review/tested-onkyo-tx-sr876-thx-ultra2-plus-certified-71-channel-av-receiver

* Just to put things in the same playing field.

~ And here's another one on the Marantz SR8002 from the same mag (Playback),
and written by Steve Guttenberg (another favorite audio writer of mine).

@ http://www.avguide.com/review/marantz-sr8002-av-receiver

*** And on another note; from this exact same publication magazine, the Marantz SR8002 was highly recommended from their best top list of all receivers reviewed.

 

[3db]

~ Here's now a review of the Onkyo TX-SR876 by the same author, Chris Martens.

@ http://www.avguide.com/review/tested-onkyo-tx-sr876-thx-ultra2-plus-certified-71-channel-av-receiver

* Just to put things in the same playing field.

~ And here's another one on the Marantz SR8002 from the same mag (Playback),
and written by Steve Guttenberg (another favorite audio writer of mine).

@ http://www.avguide.com/review/marantz-sr8002-av-receiver

*** And on another note; from this exact same publication magazine, the Marantz SR8002 was highly recommended from their best top list of all receivers reviewed.

Mornin!! I know your trying to make a point but I had no coffee yet...It ain't registering..

 

[Lordoftherings]

Mornin!! I know your trying to make a point but I had no coffee yet...It ain't registering..

Sorry 3db, I'm almost 24 hours late. Just doing the last preparations for my trip to the Himalayas.

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

I just don't buy the notion that somehow Marantz, HK and NAD sounds warm and better for music than Yamaha and Denon etc. To me, they are all good brands that we can tell their performance mostly by comparing their specs carefully. The RX-V1900 is 4.6 pounds heavier than the 8002 but the 8002 seems to have a larger power supply. (Yamaha power consumption spec: 500W, 1100W maximum, Marantz spec: 780W, no maximum specified).

So I would say if you like some of the features that only the marantz offers, such as the THX select2 certification and Audyssey etc., then go for it. If you are after better SQ playing 2 channel music then you may be further ahead by investing on other things.

Peng, I would say you are very wrong.

The 8002($1400) is THAT much better than the 6003($1000, or the higher Denon line. I have yet to test vs the Yamaha or Onkyo, But I did try it vs one lower than 8002, and vs the Pioneer Elite, and a (Denon $2000).

I am not sure what it is..perhaps the Toroidal ??? but it was warmer, it was more full, and when swithing to the other amps, I did notice the subtle vocal details, like taking a breath, or natural grigle or a snap, or a guitar string tweak...etc where lost for the most part. maybe a hint of it left from memory of switching over, but I replayed the same clips, just a couple times to confirm..it was not in the same league.

Do all the numbers, do all the additions and such, but what the ear can detect is experience, and attention, and maybe personal taste. But it is surely noticed, distinguishable, and more present sounding to my ears.

 

[PENG]

Peng, I would say you are very wrong.

The 8002($1400) is THAT much better than the 6003($1000, or the higher Denon line. I have yet to test vs the Yamaha or Onkyo, But I did try it vs one lower than 8002, and vs the Pioneer Elite, and a (Denon $2000).

I am not sure what it is..perhaps the Toroidal ??? but it was warmer, it was more full, and when swithing to the other amps, I did notice the subtle vocal details, like taking a breath, or natural grigle or a snap, or a guitar string tweak...etc where lost for the most part. maybe a hint of it left from memory of switching over, but I replayed the same clips, just a couple times to confirm..it was not in the same league.

Do all the numbers, do all the additions and such, but what the ear can detect is experience, and attention, and maybe personal taste. But it is surely noticed, distinguishable, and more present sounding to my ears.

Let's don't say who is right or wrong and just agree to disagree. Otherwise you can say I am very wrong, which you did, but I can say what you heard was what you thought you heard, i.e. Placebo....... Sorry, I believe in science, all those numbers did get the human race to the moon and back. They did not get there by their limited "hearing or sight".

 

[DSANTI]

Well I dont know if it matters to anyone but I thought Id post anyways in case someone reads this in the future and wanted to know what I end up with. There was a delay in getting the SR8002 So Ive only had a week with it so far but I had a couple days off work so I was able to get some good time comparing it to the RXV1900. I know its had to compare directly since I had to switch everything up but I took notes on certain tracks with the Yamaha to see if the marantz would output the same. I compared some quality cd and some sacd's and I know it's a burnt cd but I put in a 30 second pink noise test tone as the first track so I could play the cd at the same levels (50db and 80db). I like to listen LOUD sometimes. at 80 db some female vocals sounded a little harsh on high notes with the yamaha and high pitched instruments kind of made me want to lower the volume at times. This was the first thing I looked for with the marantz. With the same tracks and at the same level (80db) the vocals sounded much smoother and I didn't get that feeling like i needed to grab the remote to turn it down a few notches. The midrange to me was the biggest difference and just a very full sound with the marantz. Bass was good with both receivers. and I know some hate hearing the whole"brighter " or "warmer" terms but to me the marantz did sound "warmer" than the yamaha. I still have three weeks and still have some movies and a lot of music to test out but so far I am really liking the Marantz.
This is my first real setup and have had the yamaha for less than a year with Polk RTI speakers then the Paradigm studios for a couple of months. I am not very experienced but have done a lot of research and auditioning so these are just my thoughts on my personal experience. Others can say the complete opposite about speakers or receivers so its all your ears that can really tell so please don't take anything I have posted as advice or as an expert review. I will decide in a couple of weeks if I will keep or return the Marantz. So far I would say it is worth the extra money.
FYI Im using a paradigm studio 7.1 setup, my room is acoustically treated and I was/am using an Emotiva XPA-3 with both receivers.

 

[PENG]

I know some hate hearing the whole"brighter " or "warmer" terms but to me the marantz did sound "warmer" than the yamaha.

I don't know of anyone who has such issue but I am certainly not one of those people. I absolutely do not hate it when people use those terms. I simply find that whole thing confusing.

Presumably warm means proportionally more bass/mid bass and bright means proportionally less bass, mid bass and may be less mid range as well, but to what extent/proportion, and are there consensus among the general population? And no matter how it is defined, one would think that most mid range prepro/amps or receivers can achieve those kind of sound (from the coldest to the warmest, and from the darkest to the brightest kind) using all sorts of EQs found in most mid range products.

I believe in high fidelity so live music is the reference for me regardless of the adjectives such as warm, bright, dark, dull, neutral that people use all the time on various forums. If what is described as warm is closer to live music than what is described as bright then I live it warm. Conversely, I may prefer it "bright" if it sounds closer to "live".

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

I also believe in sience and the craft of using caps, res, coils, and all different levels of quality/charactoristics of components that help make a sound amplification. I

f you chose to believe that it is science and that makers don't differencient audio sound, then I can't see a point in saying much. OR your hearing is different than mine, OR , which is often the case...your not listening closely enough.

I agree with you that the charactoristics you like are those that I like also, and I think that this is more than taste, it is a accurate and Live(as you say) representation of sound reproduced. Does toroidal make a difference...YES, and if you just don't buy those kinds of things, then you may not be a good candidate to judge sound quality. (Many if not most people are not...just out of not caring will do it). Some people who have rocked hard at concerts and other load envirnoments have lost the sensations that the ear picks up on subtle differences.

I didn't mean to "wrong" you on the forum.. sorry about that, but I don't agree with your belief that amplifiers are just power providers and do not influence sound. Perhaps this would be closer in mono or amp only aps, but when a receiver that amplifies and does much more than that (hence reason why some units shut down all other areas when in directs stereo listening mode), there are detectable differences.


having said all this, I would actual enjoy listening to some music with you...we would both hear something new for sure.

 

[PENG]

I also believe in sience and the craft of using caps, res, coils, and all different levels of quality/charactoristics of components that help make a sound amplification.

Linear amps may be considered high tech 50 years ago but today they are not, and a low cost pro amp can sound the same (at least in blind listening cases) as expensive high end amps.

If you chose to believe that it is science and that makers don't differencient audio sound, then I can't see a point in saying much. OR your hearing is different than mine, OR , which is often the case...your not listening closely enough.

I am not a pure scientist. I deal with applied science/engineering everyday and I understand the differences between transformers of different designs. For your information, toroidal transformers have their technical advantages but they do not necessarily make an amp sound different, let alone better.

Does toroidal make a difference...YES,

I repeat, toroidal transformer do not necessary make an amp sound different.

and if you just don't buy those kinds of things, then you may not be a good candidate to judge sound quality.

No idea what you meant by this. Regardless, I don't intend to judge sound quality. As I said before, I like the kind of sound that I heard in live concerts. This is not judging, it is my preference and how I define "high fidelity". Others may prefer a different kind of sound that they can achieve by playing with various types of EQ. If I understood correctly, you also prefer "live" like kind of sound. To me, linear amps are designed and built to amplify an audio signal only, without distorting or modifying it in any other ways thereby imparting its "own sound" onto the signal.

I didn't mean to "wrong" you on the forum.. sorry about that, but I don't agree with your belief that amplifiers are just power providers and do not influence sound. Perhaps this would be closer in mono or amp only aps, but when a receiver that amplifies and does much more than that (hence reason why some units shut down all other areas when in directs stereo listening mode), there are detectable differences.

No problem here at all, as I said we can agree to disagree without insisting on who's right or wrong. If you read my post carefully, we may actually be more agreeable that we think. I never said all receivers sound the same. I referred to mid to upper mid range receivers in pure direct mode.

having said all this, I would actual enjoy listening to some music with you...we would both hear something new for sure.

Only if we agree to listen with our ears and not our eyes.

Best regards,
peng

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

I appreciate the time you took in response...and since I am open minded and do agree with your thought process, I will resetup the Yamaha 1065, the Pioneer Elite vsx23txh, and the Denon 2310ci. I will disconnect the sub, as the Elite plays the sub in 2ch mode, the Yam has a Direct only button and shuts everything else off, and same the Denon. So all in direct mode. I think they are very close in watts, so I will keep the volume level same, unless I need to play to adjust it for one notcing weak output. I will play a couple cd's with repeating same few distict areeas in a track, like a sax with piano...you know some areas where inprov comes in and then some more various areas. I like to listen loud, about -12db. My speaker I want to use are the ADS 4ohms. Using the CD source for Audio in.

So with this setup, they should all sound the same, correct?
What do you recommend I do for this test to be as worthwhile as a comparison between the 3? I will see if I can have a couple people so I can switch out quick without distractions as I think the key is to remember how something sounded.

let me know if I missed something

thanks!

 

[gorman]

Well... it would be significant if you could have people helping and not telling you which amp is which while they are switching them. All the while noting down which one you prefer or if you think they sound different, better, worse, etc.

Otherwise placebo effect could creep in easily.

 

[lsiberian]

Comparing Marantz to Denon is a waste of time. They are the same company with the same amps in the receivers. If your hearing things then you are hearing things. If you give me 2 hours with you in a room I can make you believe things that are totally not true. the mind is a powerful thing. If you want to measure a difference I suggest you use scientific measurements instead.

Chart the different FRs and see if their is more than a 1db deviance at any point.

make sure they are level matched.

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

Well... it would be significant if you could have people helping and not telling you which amp is which while they are switching them. All the while noting down which one you prefer or if you think they sound different, better, worse, etc.

Otherwise placebo effect could creep in easily.

Absolutely...yes, they will keep that info for them, I will not know which amp is running by name, only by sound.