R

Reckel

Audioholic Chief
It seems like you see refurbished and think trouble? The Denon 4500 is factory refurbished. That's a big difference from a regular return. It might have never been used or it might be a return or a demo. BUT all of them are fully tested. For me it's a waste of money buying new and paying more. These units come with a 3 year warranty. That's amazing on a refurb.

The Denon 4500 is able to individually set the distance and levels for each sub independently. You can later change the levels independently or as a group keeping the volume ratio the same.

I had a Yamaha receiver (lower end). It died on me right after the warranty ended. I have three Denon receivers and two are really old and never die. My Onkyo left channel stopped working, My Yamaha won't even turn on but my Denon's keep running and running. Everyone's experience is different. You might need to pay extra for the peace of mind placebo?

I worked for a company refurbishing and testing product. I would rather have a unit that's been individually tested at the factory than a new unit. My behind the scene experience may be different than yours.

Buying a return from a store that doesn't have all the parts to make a unit the same as new is a different story and these idiots on eBay that say owner refurbished on their description scare me. :p
I ordered the 4500 last night before I came into work. I’m assuming I’ll have it by the end of the week but I’ll definitely let you know what I think of it after I get it set up. Hopefully that’ll be sooner rather than later since I’m going back to working ot at work. Thx for any advice and your thoughts
 
R

Reckel

Audioholic Chief
And I hope it’s reliable and last a long time because I need no more upgrades. Don’t need or want 8k equipment
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
Does yours run hot?
Good question. When I first got my 4500 I loaded it up with 4 pairs of speakers. Including my monster 7' VMPS Super Tower III mains. I found if I didn't use ECO mode the receiver could get warm. I never used a fan on it and I never had issues with it.

However, once I started using ECO mode as my standard mode, it stays amazingly cool in comparison to ECO being off. Once I moved the 7' towers to an external amp that reduced the load to three pair of speakers on the AVR. Now it gets a little warm after a 2 hour movie but never hot to the touch. I have it mounted with free air on all sides (except the bottom).

I find the 4500 gets warmest now when I am running an Audyssey EQ setup. By the time I record all 8 sound spaces its usually as warm as after a 2 hour movie and if I run several of these EQ setup tests in a row it can get warmer.

Some in this group are using USB fans but with using ECO mode I have not found a need to do so.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yea I also saw the 4500 for 999, I’m up in the air about a refurb though. I’ve always bought brand new when it came to electronics but new could take dump also.
But I bet the odds of refurbished taking a dump is higher than brand new, especially if the refurbished came from Panurgy in New Jersey.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, if I were to use a Denon or Marantz, I would also use the ECO mode. I think most cases don't require that much power. So ECO mode should be good enough. Keeping the electronics cool is important.

Fans can help. We can measure the temp of the chassis, but what's the temperature of the circuit boards and all the other interior electronic components INSIDE the chassis even with the fans blowing on the OUTSIDE of the chassis?
 
R

Reckel

Audioholic Chief
Good question. When I first got my 4500 I loaded it up with 4 pairs of speakers. Including my monster 7' VMPS Super Tower III mains. I found if I didn't use ECO mode the receiver could get warm. I never used a fan on it and I never had issues with it.

However, once I started using ECO mode as my standard mode, it stays amazingly cool in comparison to ECO being off. Once I moved the 7' towers to an external amp that reduced the load to three pair of speakers on the AVR. Now it gets a little warm after a 2 hour movie but never hot to the touch. I have it mounted with free air on all sides (except the bottom).

I find the 4500 gets warmest now when I am running an Audyssey EQ setup. By the time I record all 8 sound spaces its usually as warm as after a 2 hour movie and if I run several of these EQ setup tests in a row it can get warmer.

Some in this group are using USB fans but with using ECO mode I have not found a need to do so.
I’ll be running my front 3 on the outlaw 5 channel amp. I’ve read if you use eco mode it takes power away from the speakers, that true? I’m probably going to buy a fan. All my speakers are klipsch rp’s
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
The Denons will run very hot if you have even 1 4 ohm speaker attached and fail to set the receiver to 4 ohm speakers in the setup menu.
Interesting, I never saw that in the menu. Apparently, those directions are buried in the manual and only accessed by holding STATUS and ZONE3 source button at the same time for 3 seconds.

4 ohm.png
 
R

Reckel

Audioholic Chief
Yeah, if I were to use a Denon or Marantz, I would also use the ECO mode. I think most cases don't require that much power. So ECO mode should be good enough. Keeping the electronics cool is important.

Fans can help. We can measure the temp of the chassis, but what's the temperature of the circuit boards and all the other interior electronic components INSIDE the chassis even with the fans blowing on the OUTSIDE of the chassis?
The 4500 I got was new. Would of went with a 2080 but Yamaha does not seem to have big discounts. Just want the denon to be reliable and last for a long time because I don’t need anymore upgrades after this
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
I’ll be running my front 3 on the outlaw 5 channel amp. I’ve read if you use eco mode it takes power away from the speakers, that true? I’m probably going to buy a fan. All my speakers are klipsch rp’s
It's documented that ECO mode does reduce electric usage and reduces amplifier power. However, I run my speakers over 90 db in ECO mode and I can't tell a difference in sound quality with it on or off. The only difference I see is you might end up turning the receiver up a little higher with ECO mode on. However, the difference in the heat on the receiver is substantial at all levels.

If someone asked me to do an AB test with or without ECO mode the only way I could tell the difference is if I could touch the top of the receiver. :D Klipsch are really high sensitivity. You will be fine with ECO mode on.
 
R

Reckel

Audioholic Chief
When I’m not busy, I’ll be in my basement all day watching tv/movies especially when I’m on vacation. The receiver will be on at those times 8hrs or longer so hopefully I have no issues. I accidentally left my Yamaha on all night last night, forgot to shut things off before I went to work. I shut things off when I got home this morning and Yamaha was really just warm not hot by any means
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, if I were to use a Denon or Marantz, I would also use the ECO mode. I think most cases don't require that much power. So ECO mode should be good enough. Keeping the electronics cool is important.

Fans can help. We can measure the temp of the chassis, but what's the temperature of the circuit boards and all the other interior electronic components INSIDE the chassis even with the fans blowing on the OUTSIDE of the chassis?
My fans don't blow on the chassis, mine draw air out of the chassis and direct it away from the unit, which should help dissipation of heat from boards/heat sinks in any case. I think active cooling is a good idea particularly for long loud sessions. I'd not use the "4 ohm" setting, tho (and don't have Eco setting as mine is an older 4520, but seems it does work to an extent from what I've read here).
 
R

Reckel

Audioholic Chief
Yes the fans suck the air out the avr and exhaust it out the rear, front or top of the fan
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
The 4500 I got was new. Would of went with a 2080 but Yamaha does not seem to have big discounts. Just want the denon to be reliable and last for a long time because I don’t need anymore upgrades after this
I find keeping electronics unplugged when not in use is a good way to extend their life. I plug the hardware into a power strip and keep the strip off when the unit is not in use. Unplugging it from the wall works even better.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My fans don't blow on the chassis, mine draw air out of the chassis and direct it away from the unit, which should help dissipation of heat from boards/heat sinks in any case. I think active cooling is a good idea particularly for long loud sessions. I'd not use the "4 ohm" setting, tho (and don't have Eco setting as mine is an older 4520, but seems it does work to an extent from what I've read here).
That’s what I did for my AVP-A1HDCI - used 3 x 120 mm fans to pull Air Up from inside the chassis. And this is inside my HT closet which is cooled to below 70F.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Call me crazy, but I was playing around with this today. I can hear an audible difference in the sound when I play music. I was trying to think of a way to measure it to validate. I play the unit in eco mode most of thee day, but if I am really enjoying something I will turn eco off imo slight improvement in sound, a little thicker sound. You would not notice in A room with people laughing or talking.

Or expectation bias...
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
Call me crazy, but I was playing around with this today. I can hear an audible difference in the sound when I play music. I was trying to think of a way to measure it to validate. I play the unit in eco mode most of thee day, but if I am really enjoying something I will turn eco off imo slight improvement in sound, a little thicker sound. You would not notice in A room with people laughing or talking.

Or expectation bias...
Close your eyes and push the ECO button on the remote several times with the TV screen off and you're 10 feet away from the AVR. Then push it a few more times while concentrating on something else. Then try to predict which version is playing. Can you guess it right every time you push the button 5x or so and listen?

If you do get it right, is volume the give away or is it truly a better sound?
 
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