X4400h

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hey man!
The reason it set them individually at 70 is so the combined response is 75. Most of us will bump them by 3-5db after audyssey since audyssey is going for flat, and flat just doesn’t sound that good. Weak!!! Lol I’m assuming you used both outputs on the 4500 so one is split and feeds the fronts and on single goes to the back? Then bump the “both” subs trim.
Agree with peng about the other levels. Unless you find them to be too loud/quiet. Then adjust to taste.

 

[Reckel]

Hey man!
The reason it set them individually at 70 is so the combined response is 75. Most of us will bump them by 3-5db after audyssey since audyssey is going for flat, and flat just doesn’t sound that good. Weak!!! Lol I’m assuming you used both outputs on the 4500 so one is split and feeds the fronts and on single goes to the back? Then bump the “both” subs trim.
Agree with peng about the other levels. Unless you find them to be too loud/quiet. Then adjust to taste.

Hey what’s up man! Yes you’re correct on how they are hooked up. I ran Audyssey again couple hrs ago and the two fronts were each at 73db using the level matching in the 4500. The rear one was actually set at about 75db. 4500 set the fronts to -9.5 and rear to -8.0. Should I just set each one to 70db and run Audyssey again? Then bump up after Audyssey? And I didn’t know if I would be doing something wrong by going back in to adjust levels after Audyssey? I assume when I go back in after Audyssey and adjust each speaker to 75db that eq from avr is applied while I’m doing it and that is why they’re each reading 77db so I end up having to go lower than what Audyssey set initially?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Hey guys, still haven’t really had a lot of time to really play with the 4500 but have some questions. I was able to run Audyssey and after it set my two subs up front at -9.5 which is fine and my rear at -8.0.

It sounds like you have the HSU volume turned up too high? Set volume around 10 to 11 o'clock on the gain, Q@0.7, EQ1, right port plugged. Then when you re-run Audessy. This time the Denon should show the units closer to "0".

HSU instructions show Audessy EQ results as improved when subs are initially setup in EQ1 and right port plugged. After Audessy EQ is run you can turn it up in the Denon levels or take the plug(s) out and use EQ2 until you find the results you desire.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Then bump up after Audyssey? And I didn’t know if I would be doing something wrong by going back in to adjust levels after Audyssey? I assume when I go back in after Audyssey and adjust each speaker to 75db that eq from avr is applied while I’m doing it and that is why they’re each reading 77db so I end up having to go lower than what Audyssey set initially?

The key is don't touch the gain button on the HSU after Audyssey is run, just adjust the sub levels on the 4500 to meet your taste. It may vary with different audio sources. In fact, Denon has easy access level controls in Audyssey for Sub and Center as these may change with taste while its best to leave the other speakers where Audyssey set them.

 

[Tachead7075]

The key is don't touch the gain button on the HSU after Audyssey is run, just adjust the sub levels on the 4500 to meet your taste. It may vary with different audio sources. In fact, Denon has easy access level controls in Audyssey for Sub and Center as these may change with taste while its best to leave the other speakers where Audyssey set them.

AVR sub levels should be kept in the minus numbers to prevent the AVR sending a clipped signal to the sub. Most say to stay around - 6.0db or lower. If you need more bass beyond - 6 you should raise the subs gain post Audyssey. Sub gain should also be kept high enough to allow your sub to perform at its best. If the sub gain is too low you will likely be limiting its performance.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

 

[Reckel]

It sounds like you have the HSU volume turned up too high? Set volume around 10 to 11 o'clock on the gain, Q@0.7, EQ1, right port plugged. Then when you re-run Audessy. This time the Denon should show the units closer to "0".

HSU instructions show Audessy EQ results as improved when subs are initially setup in EQ1 and right port plugged. After Audessy EQ is run you can turn it up in the Denon levels or take the plug(s) out and use EQ2 until you find the results you desire.

Actually each subs gain knob is just under 9 o’clock. When I mentioned the 77db that was meant toward the rest of the speakers. I forgot about setting the subs how hsu suggested, I have them in eq2 with both ports open because I believe I was talking to you about how you mentioned they sound really good that way

 

[VMPS-TIII]

AVR sub levels should be kept in the minus numbers to prevent the AVR sending a clipped signal to the sub. Most say to stay around -6.0db or lower. If you need more bass beyond - 6 you should raise the subs gain post Audyssey.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

Maybe it's different with doifferent subs? But the information I just gave comes from the HSU manual.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Actually each subs gain knob is just under 9 o’clock. When I mentioned the 77db that was meant toward the rest of the speakers. I forgot about setting the subs how hsu suggested, I have them in eq2 with both ports open because I believe I was talking to you about how you mentioned they sound really good that way

The volume sounds fine. Now set them up with EQ1 and right port plugged. HSU says this provides a better Audyssey EQ process. Next run Audyssey again.

You can change to EQ2 and both ports open after that. That's what HSU suggests and it worked well for me.

 

[Tachead7075]

Maybe it's different with doifferent subs? But the information I just gave comes from the HSU manual.

It doesn't matter what sub you are using when it comes to AVR sub levels. My understanding is you never want the sub level to be any higher then about - 6.0db in a Denon AVR. Most set their subs gain higher then the recommended green spot in the Audyssey setup to achieve these negative numbers in the AVR's sub gain post Audyssey. Then, if they need more bass then what - 6.0db offers, the increase the gain on the sub.

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[PENG]

Hey what’s up man! Yes you’re correct on how they are hooked up. I ran Audyssey again couple hrs ago and the two fronts were each at 73db using the level matching in the 4500. The rear one was actually set at about 75db. 4500 set the fronts to -9.5 and rear to -8.0. Should I just set each one to 70db and run Audyssey again? Then bump up after Audyssey? And I didn’t know if I would be doing something wrong by going back in to adjust levels after Audyssey? I assume when I go back in after Audyssey and adjust each speaker to 75db that eq from avr is applied while I’m doing it and that is why they’re each reading 77db so I end up having to go lower than what Audyssey set initially?

I found the Audyssey FAQ that may answer your question:

"Audyssey LabsAugust 13, 2011 22:48
Classes are only relevant for SPL meters. The Audyssey mic is a measurement microphone. The method of measuring SPL also matters. SPL meters use RMS and Audyssey uses a psychoacoustic weighting. SPL meters are not very accurate for subwoofer levels. I suggest you go with the Audyssey findings."

SPL meter vs Audyssey mic

Hey Chris how are you doing? I have a question, Today i measured the volume levels of my speakers with a Voltcraft SL100 digital spl meter. It was set on slow and C weighted and tried too set all ...

audyssey.zendesk.com

By the way, did you disable (or set to maximum) the low pass filter on your subs?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

It doesn't matter what sub you are using when it comes to AVR sub levels. My understanding is you never want the sub level to be any higher then about - 6.0db in a Denon AVR. Most set their subs gain higher then the recommended green spot in the Audyssey setup to achieve thse negative numbers in the AVR's sub gain.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

If you do that with the HSU, it may not allow the auto on feature to work. That's why these instructions are so specific.

 

[Reckel]

The volume sounds fine. Now set them up with EQ1 and right port plugged. HSU says this provides a better Audyssey EQ process. Next run Audyssey again.

You can change to EQ2 and both ports open after that. That's what HSU suggests and it worked well for me.

Ok thx man, I’ll go do it in a few minutes. I totally forgot about doing that when you set them up. I’ll be back on after running Audyssey. Should I go back in and change levels after Audyssey for the other speakers with a spl meter or leave the levels as Audyssey set them?

 

[Reckel]

I found the Audyssey FAQ that may answer your question:

"Audyssey LabsAugust 13, 2011 22:48
Classes are only relevant for SPL meters. The Audyssey mic is a measurement microphone. The method of measuring SPL also matters. SPL meters use RMS and Audyssey uses a psychoacoustic weighting. SPL meters are not very accurate for subwoofer levels. I suggest you go with the Audyssey findings."

SPL meter vs Audyssey mic

Hey Chris how are you doing? I have a question, Today i measured the volume levels of my speakers with a Voltcraft SL100 digital spl meter. It was set on slow and C weighted and tried too set all ...

audyssey.zendesk.com

By the way, did you disable (or set to maximum) the low pass filter on your subs?

Yes, each gain knob is set just under 9 o’clock right now

 

[Tachead7075]

If you do that with the HSU, it may not allow the auto on feature to work. That's why these instructions are so specific.

Well, my understanding is if you run higher then - 6.0db in the AVR's sub gain you risk running a clipped signal to your sub(any sub brand or model) which could damage it at high output levels. I am not familiar with Hsu but, if there is an issue with auto on then why not run off the 12V trigger?

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[VMPS-TIII]

Well, my understanding is if you run higher then - 6.0db in the AVR's sub gain you risk running a clipped signal to your sub(any sub brand or model) which could damage it at high output levels. I am not familiar with Hsu but, if there is an issue with auto on then why not run off the 12V trigger?

If I get my HSU gain low enough then I am within -3 to 0 after Audyssey runs levels. Then I typically take out the plug and switch to EQ2. I have run the sub at +3 on Denon and never observed any clipping on the HSU sub.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Ok thx man, I’ll go do it in a few minutes. I totally forgot about doing that when you set them up. I’ll be back on after running Audyssey. Should I go back in and change levels after Audyssey for the other speakers with a spl meter or leave the levels as Audyssey set them?

It's best to leave the levels as Audyssey sets them. You can mess with them but I find Audyssey is really good at level setting so I would not go far from it. What you're saying when you do that is you know better than the computer. Maybe you do? Maybe not.

The sub and center on the other hand are made for temporary changes. You can always move them back after that movie is done where you needed more dialog or a bigger bang.

 

[Tachead7075]

If I get my HSU gain low enough then I am within -3 to 0 after Audyssey runs levels. Then I typically take out the plug and switch to EQ2. I have run the sub at +3 on Denon and never observed any clipping on the HSU sub.

My understanding is the clipping can be inaudible and has been measured by the likes of some pretty respected people(it's a known issue with D&M AVR's). Many higher end subs will protect against clipping to some degree but, ideally you don't want any distorted signals sent to any speaker. Personally, I am going to stick to the advice of many and stay below - 6.0db or so in my sub trims but, it's your choice on your system sir.

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[VMPS-TIII]

My understanding is the clipping can be inaudible and has been measured by the likes of some pretty respected people(it's a known issue with D&M AVR's). Many higher end subs will protect against clipping to some degree but, ideally you don't want any distorted signals sent to any speaker. Personally, I am going to stick to the advice of many and stay below - 6.0db or so in my sub trims but, it's your choice on your system sir.

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My VMPS TallBoy dual 15" sub is 20 years old. It uses an external amp and Audyssey sets it up at -9db or more. It has no auto on feature. I totally agree with you on the Tall Boy.

 

[PENG]

I definitely respect your opinion Peng but, I don't agree with it in this case.

I think it totally depends on the Mic or SPL Meter he is using. The Audyssey mics are cheap, medium quality at best, and batch calibrated within a variance of 2.0db. If he is using a UMIK-1(especially if calibrated by CSA) or even a quality name brand SPL, that is accurate at the right frequency range to measure a sub, they both should be more accurate then the cheap included Audyssey mic(some peoples SPL Meters are worth half as much as their AVR's).

I am new to this and still learning but, I have read posts from several people that say you should indeed re-check levels post Audyssey and correct where necessary. Relying on a single measurement, with a cheap mic, during the Audyssey position 1 scan is not the most accurate way to do things imo. All it takes is a car driving by or any other issues and that one scan will not be fully accurate. With a quality SPL Meter/UMIK-1 & REW you can play a constant tone and recheck it until you get the level perfect. Then, you can recheck it anytime. While Audyssey does a pretty good job, I can't see how this method is not more accurate. I personally see Audyssey as a basic starting point(or finishing point for less technically inclined people)that can almost always be improved apon.

As for his question about the subs...

I believe you want the combined output of all three subs to be 75. But, that is just a starting point. Adjust the bass, post Audyssey, to the level you see fit(many find it too low after Audyssey). Just make sure to keep your AVR sub levels at about -6.0db or lower to prevent the AVR from sending a clipped signal. Use your subs gain to go higher then that while keeping them all synced.

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I agree with you on the build quality, but in this case if I understood right it isn't about just raw accuracy or tolerance. I based my response comment on Denon's and Audyssey's FAQs such as those linked below, so in that sense you are not really disagreeing with me, but perhaps with Denon/Audyssey.

Audyssey Microphone

denon.custhelp.com

SPL meter vs Audyssey mic

Hey Chris how are you doing? I have a question, Today i measured the volume levels of my speakers with a Voltcraft SL100 digital spl meter. It was set on slow and C weighted and tried too set all ...

audyssey.zendesk.com

Mics

I have calibration Mics that came with my Velodyne DD`15's subs. This mic seems to be much more substantial (Professional) than the one that came with the Denon AVP-HD1HDCI. Can I use this mic fo...

audyssey.zendesk.com

Note that Denon's response is a little misleading too as it mentioned different models used different Audyssey mics The fact is, over the years Audyssey did provide a few different mics for different AVRs, but for recent Denon and Marantz models, they likely do share the same mic. For example, my Marantz AV8801 and Denon AVR-X4400H's mics are the same, but my AVR-4308CI's different. This is out of topic but I should mention is because of the potentially misleading comments in the Denon FAQ linked above. I think they said that just to be on the safe side, that if you don't interchange the mic that came with the unit with another then you will be fine.

 

[PENG]

Yes, each gain knob is set just under 9 o’clock right now

Thanks, but I asked about the low pass filter settings on your subs, do they have them? If yes, you need to set them to maximum before you run Audyssey, typically means fully clockwise. Otherwise accuracy may not be as good.