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Paul DS

Audioholic
I am a fan of Denon AVR's as I think they present the best value in a capable AVR (esp the 4XXX and 3XXX series)!
Applying more power doesn't make it sound better unless you are currently running out of power. It sounds like you are fine on that count.
My point is I wanted you to be aware of the issue. The rule of thumb here (as presented by Gene and Hugo in the video) is to always keep it on 8 ohms. Based on what you are saying, you are the exception to this rule!
I assume you must have some fairly efficient speakers or your listening position is close (or both).
In any case, I wanted to make sure you understood that the 4 Ohm setting can be problematic.
It is probably not a good thing to recommend as a method to keep the AVR cooler without including the cautions!
Let me put it this way, this is my first reel to reel tape recorder bought new back in 1964 so yes, I am well aware.
 

Attachments

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
It's interesting that Denon doesn't show it in the menus. You have to dig thru the manual to find the secret key combination for 4 ohm. :)
I was wondering about that! I was not sure I had seen it in the menus, but I also have a 4520 that definitely has it, so I have a memory of seeing the impedance selector on the OSD.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Let me put it this way, this is my first reel to reel tape recorder bought new back in 1964 so yes, I am well aware.
I would never have said a thing on this except your post (below) is recommending the 4 ohm selector as a simple way to avoid heat without any mention of the potential to damage his speakers.
In a situation like that, I need to say something. Sorry.
Does yours run hot?
The Denons will run very hot if you have even 1 4 ohm speaker attached and fail to set the receiver to 4 ohm speakers in the setup menu.
 
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Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Could someone plz answer my question in post 66? Also, should dynamic eq and dynamic volume be turned on or off? 4500 comes tomorrow and can’t wait to play
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Full Audioholic
Is the conclusion then that it’s ok to use eco to reduce heat and it won’t reduce power to the speakers that will be noticeable? I’ve never used eco on my other receivers and this will be my first time owning a denon. I’m just trying to get some good insight from those who have experience with denon’s. I enjoy learning from all you guys on here about whatever I ask, it’s appreciated.
You may get different answers from different people on this. Since you are using an external amp I would suggest turning ECO ON for the few speakers that remain on the 4500. If you want to AB the difference simply push the ECO button on the remote to try ECO ON vs OFF.

It's super easy to change the configuration. While there may be different views as to whether ECO ON audibly downgrades the sound, there is no doubt the 4500 will run cooler with ECO "ON".
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Could someone plz answer my question in post 66? Also, should dynamic eq and dynamic volume be turned on or off? 4500 comes tomorrow and can’t wait to play
I'd turn off dynamic volume (a dynamic compression routine....might be helpful late night to not annoy your housemates), dynamic eq goes hand in hand with RLO (reference level offset) settings....standard post-audyssey setting for DynEQ is for movies, for music you might want to change the settings. Don't have ECO to comment on. Here's Audyssey's take on use of RLO with DynEQ https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
You may get different answers from different people on this. Since you are using an external amp I would suggest turning ECO ON for the few speakers that remain on the 4500. If you want to AB the difference simply push the ECO button on the remote to try ECO ON vs OFF.

It's super easy to change the configuration. While there may be different views as to whether ECO ON audibly downgrades the sound, there is no doubt the 4500 will run cooler with ECO "ON".
Not saying you are wrong at all, but I would go with AUTO and see how the temperature runs or if there are any audible effects of concern (including the noise of the solenoid clicking on and off).

LOL! @Reckel , there is no clear and decisive answer on this, which is probably why no one was quick to give you a direct answer. After you made your plea, we voiced our opinions and you now have one vote for ON, one for OFF, and one for AUTO, so good luck with that! Hopefully we have given you enough of an understanding so you can try the different options and see what works for you!
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
I get it and I appreciate the feedback. I do have a fan coming Saturday, would I still need to use eco if I’m just using the fan? Is the fan going to cool it down enough to not have to use eco? May be setting myself up for similar responses you guys just gave me.

This will be my first denon and I’ve never had to deal with any heat issues before on my receivers. Trying to gather as much information as possible so I know what to expect.
 
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Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Also I’m concerned that I’m going to have to constantly worry about how hot it is going to get rather than enjoying it
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Full Audioholic
Also I’m concerned that I’m going to have to constantly worry about how hot it is going to get rather than enjoying it
I would suggest hanging this note on the wall above your new 4500:

111.png


 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
PENG,
I am not using ECO off or auto mode. I leave ECO "ON" and it does not click when the volume rises above 47-57. ECO stays on and the power meter stays low. Here is an image of the volume at 57.5 and ECO mode is ON. Energy usage stays low on the power bar - Denon stays cool. I don't notice a difference in SQ with the main speakers on an external amp.


View attachment 38579
Okay so we are talking about different setting. I was always referring to "auto" that apparently some people including some of ASR thought auto is the best and would keep their units cool while in fact unless people have their volume below around -29/-30 auto has no effect in cooling because Eco works on the volume position only.

If you have Eco "On", then of course it will stay "On" all the time. You won't notice difference in SQ from the main speakers because Eco has no effects on the pre-out. If you other speakers, such as the center channel, will be power limited by Eco if they are powered by the internal power amps.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am a fan of Denon AVR's as I think they present the best value in a capable AVR (esp the 4XXX and 3XXX series)!
Applying more power doesn't make it sound better unless you are currently running out of power. It sounds like you are fine on that count.
My point is I wanted you to be aware of the issue. The rule of thumb here (as presented by Gene and Hugo in the video) is to always keep it on 8 ohms. Based on what you are saying, you are the exception to this rule!
I assume you must have some fairly efficient speakers or your listening position is close (or both).
In any case, I wanted to make sure you understood that the 4 Ohm setting can be problematic.
It is probably not a good thing to recommend as a method to keep the AVR cooler without including the cautions!
I think this is another example of how people couldn't really tell a difference in SQ if they don't know about a change (in anything, in this case limited output) that has no, or negligible effects on sound quality.

Another good example is the so called different sound signature between Denon and Marantz. They heard the difference even between models that have identical signal path parts and circuitry, such as some of the slimline model and lower Denon AVR models. I use the slimline as example so that there should be no argument because the slimline has no HDAMs, therefore in direct mode they are identical to Denon AVRs sonically speaking, if power output is not the issue. Yet people would still swear on the Marantz sound if and when they AB compare them with their eyes.:D
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Full Audioholic
Was the 4500 a big upgrade for you from your previous avr? I’m coming from a Yamaha 860 to the 4500
Yes, it was. I had an ancient Integra DTR 7 receiver before the 4500. I wasn't actively engaged in my sound system until I got the 4500. There were so many new modern features to learn about on the 4500. The high quality sound pushed me to learn more.

I had an Adcom GFA 7000 amp I bought 15 years ago that I thought didn't work. I hooked it up to the 4500 and the two sounded great together with my 20 year old VMPS Super Tower III's and TallBoy dual subs. Next, I found this community and started reading what other people were doing.

Before life was too busy to spend much time on my sound system. Now it's an active hobby. I added an HSU sub, the Hegel H90, Canton Vento Reference 9.2 DC bookshelves and now Magnepan LRS speakers on order. All of this in the last year. It all started with the 4500 purchase. :p

I can't guarantee your adventure will be the same but the 4500 provided a platform that encouraged me to advance my love of music and hi fidelity sound.
 
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VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Full Audioholic
I think this is another example of how people couldn't really tell a difference in SQ if they don't know about a change (in anything, in this case limited output) that has no, or negligible effects on sound quality.
It only sounds better after we know it should. :p
The outer ear acts like a satellite dish to collect the sound and funnel it to the inner ear.
The inner ear translates the sound to electrical impulses. Once the electrical impulses reach the brain, it interprets them into recognizable sound. So much of what we hear is impacted by what we expect to hear.
 
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Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Yes, it was. I had an ancient Integra DTR 7 receiver before the 4500. I wasn't actively engaged in my sound system until I got the 4500. There were so many new modern features to learn about on the 4500. The high quality sound pushed me to learn more.

I had an Adcom GFA 7000 amp I bought 15 years ago that I thought didn't work. I hooked it up to the 4500 and the two sounded great together with my 20 year old VMPS Super Tower III's and TallBoy dual subs. Next, I found this community and started reading what other people were doing.

Before life was too busy to spend much time on my sound system. Now it's an active hobby. I added an HSU sub, the Hegel H90, Canton Vento Reference 9.2 DC bookshelves and now Magnepan LRS speakers on order. All of this in the last year. It all started with the 4500 purchase. :p

I can't guarantee your adventure will be the same but the 4500 provided a platform that encouraged me to advance my love of music and hi fidelity sound.
I’m sure it’ll be a big change for me too. I love listening/watching movies in my own theater area in the basement and listening to music too. I’ve got 3 hsu subs and would like a 4th at some point but I really don’t need it now and I’m sure my wife would lose her mind if I had another one. My kids sports is really tying my time up to be in the basement but that’s ok because I’d rather be watching them excel in a sport. My job also ties me up too but hopefully that slows down
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I get it and I appreciate the feedback. I do have a fan coming Saturday, would I still need to use eco if I’m just using the fan? Is the fan going to cool it down enough to not have to use eco? May be setting myself up for similar responses you guys just gave me.

This will be my first denon and I’ve never had to deal with any heat issues before on my receivers. Trying to gather as much information as possible so I know what to expect.
ECO is impressively effective at lowering the temperature, but even at the lowest speed, the fan will do a much better job.
My comment (about at lowest speed) is based on the AC Infinity dual fans. I assume that what you got is equivalent.
I have mine running on low, anytime the AVR is on so it is something I never think about. So I would advise you to get one of these to turn it on and off whenever you turn on/off your AVR (or TV for HT). Plug the AVR into the master outlet and the fan into one of the controlled outlets.

Alternately, (and what you probably want to do until you get the switched outlet strip) you can plug the fans into the USB port on the front of the Denon. I assume you would not want to leave it plugged there for cosmetic reasons, but if it doesn't bother you, then there is no need to get the strip.

Either way, you will not need to stress over the temp once you get the fan in place.
 
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Reckel

Senior Audioholic
ECO is impressively effective at lowering the temperature, but even at the lowest speed, the fan will do a much better job.
My comment (about at lowest speed) is based on the AC Infinity dual fans. I assume that what you got is equivalent.
I have mine running on low, anytime the AVR is on so it is something I never think about. So I would advise you to get one of these to turn it on and off whenever you turn on/off your AVR (or TV for HT). Plug the AVR into the master outlet and the fan into one of the controlled outlets.

Alternately, (and what you probably want to do until you get the switched outlet strip) you can plug the fans into the USB port on the front of the Denon. I assume you would not want to leave it plugged there for cosmetic reasons, but if it doesn't bother you, then there is no need to get the strip.

Either way, you will not need to stress over the temp once you get the fan in place.
Thx man. The one I ordered can actually be plugged into my power strip not usb, which I definitely would not of liked seeing that. Mine is a ac infinity, has two fans and I believe in the smart mode it will automatically turn on
 
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Reckel

Senior Audioholic
ECO is impressively effective at lowering the temperature, but even at the lowest speed, the fan will do a much better job.
My comment (about at lowest speed) is based on the AC Infinity dual fans. I assume that what you got is equivalent.
I have mine running on low, anytime the AVR is on so it is something I never think about. So I would advise you to get one of these to turn it on and off whenever you turn on/off your AVR (or TV for HT). Plug the AVR into the master outlet and the fan into one of the controlled outlets.

Alternately, (and what you probably want to do until you get the switched outlet strip) you can plug the fans into the USB port on the front of the Denon. I assume you would not want to leave it plugged there for cosmetic reasons, but if it doesn't bother you, then there is no need to get the strip.

Either way, you will not need to stress over the temp once you get the fan in place.
Ac infinity s7 is what I have coming
 

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