Will a 3-channel separate Amp mellow big two tower speakers?

[PENG]

All those are European or American brands - currently Aussie dollar is low. Plus postage will be high.

I did link March Audio, model P that is made in Western Australia:
About Us - March Audio

The P422, specifically, had great measurements, and is much more powerful than the Elektra amp:
Marchaudio P422 Stereo Power Amplifier Renewed Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

The Elektra amp does have great specs too, just not really that powerful, only 225 W into 4 ohms, that is about the same as the upper midrange AVRs of Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo's.

It is probably a good choice, being made in Australia. It would be great if I can see some technical reviews that included bench test measurements, but I found none on the internet.

The March Audio amps (seems to be the only class D Bruno Putrzey designed amps build in Australia) is preferred mainly because it is class D, that I think is the trend, sooner or later they will displace class AB amps that are heavy, runs hot, and need more space, and for no good reasons now that highly transparent class D amps are widely available. Among class D amps, Bruno Putzey's design is one of the well proven one as he started the Hypex series long time ago and have been improving his designs over the years.

Bruno Putzeys: Head of the Class (D, That is) | Sound & Vision

I have replaced my two heavies amps in the last couple years and never look back.

Here's one of the huge amp I replaced most recently:

Obviously if space, heat, weight is not a benefit to your case then the only other advantage of class D amps is "green" lol... In that case, the Elektra looks really good, at least on paper, again, just not powerful enough imo, and no bench test results to confirm the advertised specs.

 

[Golfx]

Are you just totally against getting better speakers? You are really searching for fixes that will not really work. As suggested above get new speakers and you will be pleased in the long run.

March audio near perth also sells world quality speakers that have rave reviews. And as you mentioned Kef as well. Sometimes it is hard to admit we have purchased bad speakers—they usually show up as tiring to listen to after awhile.

 

[TLS Guy]

All those are European or American brands - currently Aussie dollar is low. Plus postage will be high. I found this Aussie brand (Elektra) if someone could have a look - on paper it looks extremely impressive three channel amp. Damping factor > 5000 freq response starts from 5 Hz (Blah blah?) The link is from a retailer: https://www.westcoasthifi.com.au/shop/2-channel-audio/power-amplifier/elektra-hd2-power-amplifier/. Obviously a costly purchase - only if needed after Dirac bass licence.

You are looking for solutions that are not going to help improve your sound.

There is good and very reliable data on all the drivers in your speakers. I am certain that your issue is incompetently designed crossovers. It will be work, but I could design new crossovers for you if you want. If I do, are you able to build them, or would I have to build them and ship them?

I only use high quality inductors and caps in my crossovers, so there would be some expense, but I can't tell you the figure until I would do a design and price the components.

After reviewing all this I am certain your speakers can be greatly improved by a crossover redesign. You would have to install them of course.

 

[AussieNewbie]

Are you just totally against getting better speakers? You are really searching for fixes that will not really work. As suggested above get new speakers and you will be pleased in the long run.

March audio near perth also sells world quality speakers that have rave reviews. And as you mentioned Kef as well. Sometimes it is hard to admit we have purchased bad speakers—they usually show up as tiring to listen to after awhile.

I got convinced by the sale’s pitch (the guy in 2012 said he uses components used in 50K Wilson speakers etc etc). And, it seems the technology has moved on. So, yes, I am reluctant to discard my most expensive (it cost me fair bit back then) tower speakers. In any case, the trials used in perfect shop conditions don’t always help in your living room. I am sure my wife won’t approve of me buying new towers till I sell the old ones at a decent price. Am not even sure if a cross-over at 200 between LF and mid-range is a typo or the truth. Sounds odd. I really need to do a proper re-assessment of how they sound as stereo with a known music piece (tester pieces don’t work for me if I don’t know the song very well). It could be cheaper to get a new cross-over built and fitted as suggested by TLS guy. But I am 57 and no good with a screw driver in my hands. By the time I get a new cross over made and fitted, I could be better off buying a new tower speaker and and selling the towers + Centre (hopefully at a very decent price)

 

[TLS Guy]

I got convinced by the sale’s pitch (the guy in 2012 said he uses components used in 50K Wilson speakers etc etc). And, it seems the technology has moved on. So, yes, I am reluctant to discard my most expensive (it cost me fair bit back then) tower speakers. In any case, the trials used in perfect shop conditions don’t always help in your living room. I am sure my wife won’t approve of me buying new towers till I sell the old ones at a decent price. Am not even sure if a cross-over at 200 between LF and mid-range is a typo or the truth. Sounds odd. I really need to do a proper re-assessment of how they sound as stereo with a known music piece (tester pieces don’t work for me if I don’t know the song very well). It could be cheaper to get a new cross-over built and fitted as suggested by TLS guy. But I am 57 and no good with a screw driver in my hands. By the time I get a new cross over made and fitted, I could be better off buying a new tower speaker and and selling the towers + Centre (hopefully at a very decent price)

Yes, replacing the crossover will be a lot cheaper than replacing the speakers. If you can't even use a screwdriver, then modding the speakers is not for you. I just can't believe how many useless people we have around these days.

I was seven, when a new Rotoscythe lawn mower was delivered to our house. It had a Villiers single cylinder two cycle engine. My father told me that I would mow the lawn, and it was large. Further that it I would maintain and repair it, and that it was never to see the inside of a repair shop. It didn't and that was the first engine I ever rebuilt. I used it until the front wheels fell off due to fatigue of the cast chassis. That was an un-remedial situation and the end of the line. My father was right. He did not want us kids growing up useless and none of us did.

 

[AussieNewbie]

You are looking for solutions that are not going to help improve your sound.

There is good and very reliable data on all the drivers in your speakers. I am certain that your issue is incompetently designed crossovers. It will be work, but I could design new crossovers for you if you want. If I do, are you able to build them, or would I have to build them and ship them?

I only use high quality inductors and caps in my crossovers, so there would be some expense, but I can't tell you the figure until I would do a design and price the components.

After reviewing all this I am certain your speakers can be greatly improved by a crossover redesign. You would have to install them of course.

Are you in Australia or in US? How easy or difficult is it to replace old X-over to a newly created cross over. I am (very) sure, I am not bothered by the Peerless Nomex 2 X 210 mm woofers being of very ordinary quality. And as I said, I am older and Not good with electronics (so, I will have to get someone to come over at my house even if buy an X-over from you). I probably do have to spend some money on a higher sensitivity “Centre”. That is equally important aspect because I don’t want to constantly change the volume whilst watching a movie. A have a Polk AXi6 centre channel lying around. Apologies in advance for the fact that I am trying to reach for the stars whilst on a budget by now. In fact, I bought an AMC 150 watts per channel discrete toroidal 3 channel amp. But, I can’t even put it in the set up successfully. (Bought for AUD 999 from Rio sound Australia) - I thought it should take some pressure off the remaining 8 channels driven by DRX8.4 (150 watts / 8 ohms if two channel driven)

 

[AussieNewbie]

Sorry, it’s a CSi A6. Rated sensitivity 90 (I should use it as this is better than the 86 to 87 sensitivity of matching centre speaker from NZ) Colour matching.

 

[AussieNewbie]

Yes, replacing the crossover will be a lot cheaper than replacing the speakers. If you can't even use a screwdriver, then modding the speakers is not for you. I just can't believe how many useless people we have around these days.

I was seven, when a new Rotoscythe lawn mower was delivered to our house. It had a Villiers single cylinder two cycle engine. My father told me that I would mow the lawn, and it was large. Further that it I would maintain and repair it, and that it was never to see the inside of a repair shop. It didn't and that was the first engine I ever rebuilt. I used it until the front wheels fell off due to fatigue of the cast chassis. That was an un-remedial situation and the end of the line. My father was right. He did not want us kids growing up useless and none of us did.

Well, I was exxagerating. I grew up in India. The first time, I held a screw driver in my hands was 2 years after I moved to Australia - by 32 - 33 years of age. My 18 year old son is very good with electronics (but hard to get to do some work for me). I can use a screwdriver, physical and battery operated all right! My son built a computer from scratch at the age of 13, he can operate all three OS at the same time, always had 30 tabs open at any time, and still manages to have a GPA above 6.5- first year @ Uni. Each to his / her own He has a soldering gun, Voltage meter etc etc etc .

 

[AussieNewbie]

Yes, replacing the crossover will be a lot cheaper than replacing the speakers. If you can't even use a screwdriver, then modding the speakers is not for you. I just can't believe how many useless people we have around these days.

I was seven, when a new Rotoscythe lawn mower was delivered to our house. It had a Villiers single cylinder two cycle engine. My father told me that I would mow the lawn, and it was large. Further that it I would maintain and repair it, and that it was never to see the inside of a repair shop. It didn't and that was the first engine I ever rebuilt. I used it until the front wheels fell off due to fatigue of the cast chassis. That was an un-remedial situation and the end of the line. My father was right. He did not want us kids growing up useless and none of us did.

BTW, we are going to have a lot more useless people in coming days. The kids these days are all on computer / electronic games. Can’t use simple tools and if questioned - the standard answer is “they want to become “game designers” or they wish to work as beta testers for new games!!!

 

[AussieNewbie]

DAYTON AUDIO 3 WAY SPEAKER CROSSOVER

The 3-way, 2nd-order (12 dB/octave) crossover from Dayton Audio was designed with a 3 octave spread between crossover points. Metallised polyester film capacitors are used in the critical midrange and tweeter signal paths. 18 gauge tweeter and midrange inductors, and 20 gauge woofer inductors...

www.wagneronline.com.au

I found that there are quality parts, kits, or fully assembled cross-overs are available in Australia itself. Just one example above. So, what would be recommended (Au available/ amazon prime available) parts and (suggested) X-over points - given that the characteristics of the drivers in my speakers are well documented?

I don’t understand the pros and cons of a 12 dB slope and selection of the two X-over points for my set of drivers (Eg combo of 500Hz+ 5000Hz, or 375Hz +3000Hz). It’s all Greek and Latin for me even if I understand the basic terms. A spread of 3 dB across the x-over points etc etc. I am pretty confident that my son can manage assembling a brand new X-Over. He has created drones, and lots of electronic-things using spare parts. (And, he had a Uni selection rank of 99.95 in grade-12 - the highest possible). We would be very afraid to open the rather slick tower speakers though. I shall search for an AV afficiando online (Airtasker / Hi pages etc) to be available if we get lost ourselves.

 

[TLS Guy]

DAYTON AUDIO 3 WAY SPEAKER CROSSOVER

The 3-way, 2nd-order (12 dB/octave) crossover from Dayton Audio was designed with a 3 octave spread between crossover points. Metallised polyester film capacitors are used in the critical midrange and tweeter signal paths. 18 gauge tweeter and midrange inductors, and 20 gauge woofer inductors...

www.wagneronline.com.au

I found that there are quality parts, kits, or fully assembled cross-overs are available in Australia itself. Just one example above. So, what would be recommended (Au available/ amazon prime available) parts and (suggested) X-over points - given that the characteristics of the drivers in my speakers are well documented?

I don’t understand the pros and cons of a 12 dB slope and selection of the two X-over points for my set of drivers (Eg combo of 500Hz+ 5000Hz, or 375Hz +3000Hz). It’s all Greek and Latin for me even if I understand the basic terms. A spread of 3 dB across the x-over points etc etc. I am pretty confident that my son can manage assembling a brand new X-Over. He has created drones, and lots of electronic-things using spare parts. (And, he had a Uni selection rank of 99.95 in grade-12 - the highest possible). We would be very afraid to open the rather slick tower speakers though. I shall search for an AV afficiando online (Airtasker / Hi pages etc) to be available if we get lost ourselves.

You can not use off the shelf crossovers ever. That is hopeless and will always give bad results. You have to design EVERY crossover to the Thiele/Small parameters of all the drivers and their acoustic responses.
The order of your crossovers is determined by the order of the roll off of the driver on both the high and lower end of their responses. It is quite an arduous task, but made much easier and quicker with design software.

if your son can follow a circuit diagram and can solder well, then he could build crossovers to my design. Otherwise I would have to design and build them and he could install them.

Lastly a beginner would never start by designing and building a three way crossover.