Questions relative to fabrics found in movie theaters

[TLS Guy]

Why does the first graph show a decibel level near 95 dB? This is concert-like volume; no one can listen at this level for a prolonged period of time. It is deafening. The baseline should be around 70 dB, speech level and recommended for everyday listening.

I don't see anything dramatic in the frequency response when looking at the Newell/Holland paper compared to 35 nearfield monitors: https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/assetlibrary/n/ns10m.pdf

There is no perceivable distortion 1. and 2. it is acknowledged that this is not a bass-heavy speaker. To me, it sounds neutral/flat. This is far from ideal for most rooms, indeed. In my current room, these are not midrangy, can-sounding speaker that kills my ears with distorted sound. You seem to take measurements way too seriously.

The db level is because the testing mic will have been 1 meter from the tweeter. I did not mention distortion, but you can bet that cone breakup will be associated with distortion.

Measurements do matter. A speaker that measures poorly will not sound good. However you can have a speaker that measures fairly well that does not sound good. That is because the measurements tell you little about the power band response. You can keep an amplifier at full power, but you can't do that with a speaker or you will burn it out.

In speaker design measurements are essential, otherwise you are bumbling around in the dark. After first hearing that speaker I could have drawn the FR curve pretty accurately. I would have been very unhappy with the FR plot of it was one of my designs and would not have put it into service.

Lastly you are wasting your time trying to improve a speaker like that with room treatments. If that were one of my designs, it would more then likely ended up a bin job. However that would have not got to the build stage, as I would have never have crossed it over above the cone break up point. That is a crass error.

Unfortunately there are far too many designers in the commercial world out there who don't know what the H they are doing. However I do believe the proportion of those is declining over time.

 

[ScareDe2]

No, no, my computer room where the NS10s are is completely treated. My living room, where I installed the wool rug, is just TV speakers on concrete in the basement. I spend far more time in the computer room, though.

I will conclude this is a huge misunderstanding. Your first graph tightly matches the one provided by the anechoic chamber measurement, suggesting it was measured in a similar environment. Another thing is that the NS10s are room-sensitive speakers, as was suggested in the study itself, meaning the surrounding environment can impact the sound and help the speakers lean toward neutrality. Also, the thin bass can be improved immediately by positioning the speakers near a wall. Improving the bass, enhancing the neutrality, worsening its sound, or anything in between, can be achieved with room acoustics. Mine sound completely flat.

 

[highfigh]

And just wanted to emphasize that they do the exact same thing with room acoustics, hence why I like them. What I understand is that you never heard a pair of NS10 who sounded good in relation with the room it was playing in. They are a cutting tool for both mix and room acoustics.

Ok look I have a good explanation let's try this: If the yamaha NS10 sounds good in your room, any speakers will sound good in your room. Like it that way? I just made up that new myth so we can close that chapter. lol

NS-10 is a near-field monitor and if used that way, the room really doesn't influence the sound very much unless the SPL is high and the speakers are very close to the walls. This combination is their is not the way they're intended to be used.

 

[ScareDe2]

NS-10 is a near-field monitor and if used that way, the room really doesn't influence the sound very much unless the SPL is high and the speakers are very close to the walls. This combination is their is not the way they're intended to be used.

No, they were originally intended for home use before being adopted by studios as a reference monitor. The room influences the NS-10s at low volume. I know, I've been working with them for 5 years.

 

[TLS Guy]

No, they were originally intended for home use before being adopted by studios as a reference monitor. The room influences the NS-10s at low volume. I know, I've been working with them for 5 years.

I know a bad speaker when I hear one, and they are bad speakers.

 

[ScareDe2]

Let’s say we have two pieces of 100% cotton with the same density, weight, and thickness. The texture alone—just the texture—will make the fabric impact sound differently. My understanding is that the softer the fabric, the better, as it traps high frequencies more efficiently. The sound that is reflected will also diffused more chaotically compared to a smoother cotton surface, which helps reduce reverberation at the same time. The quality velour beach towels I have are nice but I’m going to try cotton batting next.

Does anyone know what this white piece of fabric inside the DT770 is? It looks like cotton batting to me. I know for a fact it is soft but not sure:

 

[TLS Guy]

Let’s say we have two pieces of 100% cotton with the same density, weight, and thickness. The texture alone—just the texture—will make the fabric impact sound differently. My understanding is that the softer the fabric, the better, as it traps high frequencies more efficiently. The sound that is reflected will also diffused more chaotically compared to a smoother cotton surface, which helps reduce reverberation at the same time. The quality velour beach towels I have are nice but I’m going to try cotton batting next.

How long is this going to go on? Your problem is the age old one we have here all the time.

Your room reflections do not match the axis response of your speakers. Your brain hates that.

This is especially likely to happen when cone speakers are driven into their break up range.

There is abundant data your mid woofer is breaking up badly in the middle of the speech discrimination band, where the ear is most sensitive.

So, ameliorating the room reflections will give some amelioration. However, you will not kill all the reflections unless you build an anechoic chamber. They are fine for testing speakers, but hopeless as listening rooms. Even then the axis response of those speakers is not accurate either.

The bottom line is that you will not solve your problem no what you plaster around your room.

Your only solution is speakers with a more accurate axis and off axis response. Anything else is futile. Yes, it is banging your head against the proverbial wall.

The problem with your speakers has been documented by more than a few individuals, and your problem is not open to dispute.

 

[ScareDe2]

Computer room: I don’t drive my speaker cones into their breakup range. I don’t listen at 95 deafening dB. I don’t live inside an anechoic chamber. The measurements provided are useful as an indication and for comparison, but they don’t match my in-room response. I design an everyday acoustical space where reflections occur on uneven surfaces.

Living room, I’m not seeking perfect sound. I want to recreate a boomy, yes, I’ll say it, unintelligible and even disorienting sound that mimics the flavor of a vintage movie theater. That’s what I’m after. For the living room, I don’t want the perfect sound; I want to tame higher frequencies and reach a state where I feel like a zombie in front of the screen.

Your point might be valid and that’s great to know, for real. I’m truly bending my knee in front of the amount of wisdom shown regarding axis and off-axis response and how the brain needs it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Computer room: I don’t drive my speaker cones into their breakup range. I don’t listen at 95 deafening dB. I don’t live inside an anechoic chamber. The measurements provided are useful as an indication and for comparison, but they don’t match my in-room response. I design an everyday acoustical space where reflections occur on uneven surfaces.

Living room, I’m not seeking perfect sound. I want to recreate a boomy, yes, I’ll say it, unintelligible and even disorienting sound that mimics the flavor of a vintage movie theater. That’s what I’m after. For the living room, I don’t want the perfect sound; I want to tame higher frequencies and reach a state where I feel like a zombie in front of the screen.

Your point might be valid and that’s great to know, for real. I’m truly bending my knee in front of the amount of wisdom shown regarding axis and off-axis response and how the brain needs it.

You have a lot to learn my friend. The break up mode of a speaker will be excited at what ever level you play it. It is not in the least related to volume but purely on the characteristics of the cone.

If you want to improve your sound then you have a lot of reading and research to do.

 

[ScareDe2]

I’m sorry, but I don’t have any issues with the NS10s. 1. The room response flattens the anechoic NS10's frequency response shown on the graph. The cone breakup from the inherent design you mentioned (affecting most similar-sized speakers) is inaudible. 3. The surface and environment I work in are irregular. 4. My computer sound is already perfectly flat, accurate, non-aggressive, and lifelike. I don't have anything to address in that regard. And this was a bit off topic, really.

 

[highfigh]

No, they were originally intended for home use before being adopted by studios as a reference monitor. The room influences the NS-10s at low volume. I know, I've been working with them for 5 years.

The energy from low SPL reflections is masked by the direct sound when they're used as near-field monitors. That's true for almost all speakers, depending on the distance between the drivers & boundaries, and it depends on the directivity pattern of the speaker system. .

 

[ScareDe2]

The energy from low SPL reflections is masked by the direct sound when they're used as near-field monitors. That's true for almost all speakers, depending on the distance between the drivers & boundaries, and it depends on the directivity pattern of the speaker system. .

I don't use them as nearfield monitors. I'm at about 2.5 meters from them. On axis.