Why can't I decide?!

[Joe Schmoe]

I currently own two pairs of speakers for stereo (not counting the ones in my HT), and went through many more on the way to acquiring these. One pair are mini-monitors (Cambridge Audio S30s), and the other are smallish floorstanders (Infinity Primus 250s.)

I like both, and enjoy whichever pair I am listening to. Nevertheless, there is inevitably something about the other pair that I miss and think I might like better! As a result, I end up swapping between them at least weekly.

Why can't I make a decision and stick with it?! Can I ever find any speakers that I like well enough to enjoy permanently, without this constant feeling of wanting something different?

 

[GlocksRock]

It's because you are an audioholic.

 

[itschris]

Can I ever find any speakers that I like well enough to enjoy permanently, without this constant feeling of wanting something different?

Simple answer? No you can't. 90% of the excitement is the pursuit of getting what we want. Once we get it, the next 5% is used up in the first 5 minutes of unboxing, staring, and the first listen of whatever it is we got. The next 3% is used the following morning after we wake and see that it's still there which solidifies the knowledge that "yes... we do have it."

Beyond that, there's a solid 1-2% of ongoing excitement, but even that may be false because I think part of that is the excitement about thinking what we would get next or instead given funds, the green light by the missus, etc.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that we don't like or care about our stuff, it's just that there's always something new that's bigger, brighter, louder, clearer, taller... whatever... that catches our fancy. That's why we can be active members on an a/v forum for months and years talking about the same stuff over and over again.

 

[Midcow2]

Because, It's the journey not the destination that counts. Also , Most Audioholics tend to be a little bit fickled, picky and insatiable as they pursue the utlimate goal of absolute perfection

 

[mazersteven]

That's why we can be active members on an a/v forum for months and years talking about the same stuff over and over again.

Very True.

 

[Seth=L]

Talk to WmAx or Avaserfi, they can get your perfect speaker assembled.

 

[mazersteven]

pursue the utlimate goal of absolute perfection

"Absolute Perfection" lies within the heart. Because without that, there is only "Diminishing Returns".

 

[MinusTheBear]

"No speaker is perfect" (irritateguy)

What flaws men try to find in women, you find in speakers. It is part of the sickness of being an audioholic, they say crack is bad on the finances .

 

[mazersteven]

(irritateguy)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

So, I guess the day when I can finally stop spending money on speakers will never arrive?

These days, I find myself thinking of trying something "off the beaten path". Perhaps Role Sampans, Duevel Planets, or Ohm Micro Walshes, for example.

 

[Midcow2]

"No speaker is perfect" (irritateguy)

What flaws men try to find in women, you find in speakers. It is part of the sickness of being an audioholic, they say crack is bad on the finances .

No speaker is perfect ... except in theory and on paper

 

[avaserfi]

Rather than simply relying on a loudspeakers natural response it would perhaps be a superior option, given your complaint, to invest in a DCX2496 and a pair of low resonance, linear loudspeakers with a polar response that matches axial response closely. With this combination you would be able to adjust the loudspeakers response to match your desired tonality exactly. If you are willing to make known your budget, current gear and intended application along side your willingness to use acoustic treatments and/or modify a speaker I would be willing to make such a recommendation based on my previous statement.

As far as the existence of the 'perfect speaker*': As with all other forms of design there are certain compromises that must be made in the design process. That being said there are certainly certain loudspeakers that are superior to others and some are able to achieve near perfection with minimal compromises included in design. Also, the perfect loudspeaker is nothing without an ideally treated room - this such treatment typically results in a subjectively ugly room**.

*My reference to perfection in loudspeaker design is directly related to what credible perceptual research has repeatedly shown as optimal loudspeaker characteristics.

**In a typical home environment approximately 50% of the sound that reaches ones ears is ambient sound that has been effected by the room.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Your solution involves knowing what my "desired tonality" is! At this point, I can only listen to speakers and say "I like them" or "I don't like them". Occasionally, I might be able to pin down a few specific reasons.
Also, the things I am looking for often cannot be described in terms of tone, but only in subjective terms like "clarity" or "imaging"

Using my current speakers as examples:

The S30s have some of the most precise imaging I have heard. Soundstage is wide and deep, but lacks height. Vocals and acoustic instruments sound very lifelike, but electric guitar sounds a bit weak. Bass extension is limited, but what there is is exceptionally well-defined. Overall detail is extremely good, especially on complex percussion. Dynamics are good, but not great. As an added bonus, there is a tremendous "wow factor" in hearing so much sound from such tiny cabinets.

The Primuses have very deep, powerful bass, but it can be a tad muddy at times. Soundstage is reasonably deep and wide (though not as much so as the S30s), while height is much better than the S30s. Electric gutars have plenty of bite, and vocals and acoustic instruments are fairly natural, but sometimes exhibit a slightly boxy character. Overall detail is fairly good, but there are subleties I hear on the S30s that I miss on these. Dynamics are right up there with a live concert. No "wow factor" because one expects a big sound from cabinets this size.

 

[avaserfi]

Your solution involves knowing what my "desired tonality" is! At this point, I can only listen to speakers and say "I like them" or "I don't like them". Occasionally, I might be able to pin down a few specific reasons.

While you, perhaps, do not know what a graph of your preferred tonality looks like this isn't too hard to determine via experimentation when starting from a known, linear, response. This method does take more interaction and time than simply purchasing a speaker, but results have potential to be ideal rather than simply settling for what you could find as best.

Also, the things I am looking for often cannot be described in terms of tone, but only in subjective terms like "clarity" or "imaging"

Such aspects are not subjective, but directly related to measured characteristics of a loudspeaker the room and their interaction.

Clarity is related to various distortions within a loudspeaker from commonly realized issues such as THD to less commonly realized issues such as panel/driver resonance which creates the perceived effect of 'smearing' and colored timbre. Also, aspects clarity have been shown to be increased by having untreated first reflection points if a loudspeaker's behavior properly allows for these conditions, a rarity in the DIY/commercial world.

Imaging directly relates to three primary factors listed in order of effect:

Room interaction - It has been shown through countless perceptual studies that off-axis response with similar magnitude to the axial response increases listening enjoyment in stereophonic situations. This was found to be in part due to increase realism caused by superior imaging. There are however some exemptions to these findings. Any speaker with designed to have off axis dispersion will have terrible imaging if placed within one foot of boundaries in a highly reverberant room.

Symmetry of response - this refers to the frequency and phase of the loudspeakers and effects the perception of being in the center. Symmetry of speaker placement and listener position do play a part in this.

Treble response - Referring to a typical two channel system a slight boost in treble (3dB above 6kHz) will yield perceived 'tighter' imaging with a smaller sweet spot while the same cut will yield wider, but more 'loose' imaging.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Hey Joe, (in my best Korean prostitute voice)

From what you have described I'd bet that if you modified the Infinities cabinets and experimented with EQ/location/room treatments you'd be darn close to "perfect", for now, we are Audioholics after all.

What the heck...spend the money so I know whether I right or not!

SBF1

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Hey Joe, (in my best Korean prostitute voice)

From what you have described I'd bet that if you modified the Infinities cabinets and experimented with EQ/location/room treatments you'd be darn close to "perfect", for now, we are Audioholics after all.

What the heck...spend the money so I know whether I right or not!

SBF1

EQ would involve adding another component to the playback chain. I don't want to do that because of the potential for degrading the signal, and because the money would be better spent on speakers.

I have tried room treatment, and I got a refund on the panels because they made no difference that I could hear (my room has pretty decent acoustics on its own.)

That leaves cabinet modifications. I might try those if I knew what to do, and if it was something I could do in an apartment, with no workshop, tools, or carpentry skills.

Again, it seems like the money might be better spent on a future speaker upgrade. (And it is probably better to wait and save to give myself more options than to buy what I can afford soon.)

 

[majorloser]

"No speaker is perfect" (irritateguy)

Wrong forum. Please move along, nothing to see here.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Midcow hit it right on the head as I see it , "It's the journey not the destination that counts".

All of us are looking for different endpoints.

Mike- how many subs can fit into a room
Andrew- credible perceptual research
Chris- see above
Joe- no idea what I want
Warp- how many girls can I fit into my room without having to move a sub
StrongBad- I dont care about speakers, where can I find a Korean prostitute
Glocks- Man I love DTs
Steven- I like speakers, I wish I liked women
AccuDT- Look at the specs on this set of speakers
Greg- I just like making fun of things

 

[bandphan]

EQ would involve adding another component to the playback chain. I don't want to do that because of the potential for degrading the signal, and because the money would be better spent on speakers.

the dcx mentioned will not degrade the sound quality at all im invisible

 

[Alex2507]

That leaves cabinet modifications. I might try those if I knew what to do, and if it was something I could do in an apartment, with no workshop, tools, or carpentry skills.

Getting the magnetic shields on the Primus speakers to quit rattling has to be a step in the right direction. Of course you do need a few tools but more importantly you need the will to do it. However once you get those two things, make sure you don't poke a hole in the speaker with the screw driver.

Don't laugh. There seem to be a million screws and my mind wanders, screw drivers slip and well, the cone is right there! You just have to pay attention. I bumped the surround and didn't do any damage but there is always the chance you could break something.

In case you missed it here's the link to what I did. It shows how limited the required tools really are. If I had it to do over again, I would do one at a time to be able to better compare them.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46286