Why are SACD's out of print?

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
5,895 21 47
#81
Unfortunately I find that it is little more than a remote control for me as the only Heos device I have is my sr7013.

The app on the AVR is pretty dumb. It doesn't sync with my tidal favorites at all, and leaves me to drive everything from the mobile app.

A nice side effect is that now I have tidal on all my Sonos stuff (kitchen, bedroom, and bathroom) around the house.
Yeah streaming apps are leaning towards phone/pad apps for control. So Heos and Sonos play nice together or that's just your phone with tidal app that's useful for both ecosystems?
 
B

baronvonellis

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
26 1
#82
I think the DVD Audio format would be more practical and cheaper to produce than the SACD.

I may be wrong but I believe that for the release of a SACD disc, SONY has the complete control over its production as you have to rent the equipment from them. As for the DVD-A format, it would seem easier to own the appropriate recording hardware and the label company wouldn't have to pay those rental fees.

IMO, the DVD-A format performs as well as the SACD for multi-channel recordings and it even allows a wider dynamic range.
No, that's not correct. You can use Pyramix digital audio workstation to record in DSD, it's not part of Sony. DSD files can be burned to DVD media as standard UDF (Universal Disk Format) files, and Sony have released a specification for doing this.

Sony doesn't even own their Sonoma recording system that they developed. It was sold to Super Audio Center in Boulder, CO. They are working with PS Audio on their new DSD recording studio. I'm looking forward to see what SACD's they release. Sony gave up on SACD, but luckily they still make universal SACD/blu ray players, that can play DSD files as well.
 
Last edited:
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
955 6 27
#83
No, that's not correct. You can use Pyramix digital audio workstation to record in DSD, it's not part of Sony. DSD files can be burned to DVD media as standard UDF (Universal Disk Format) files, and Sony have released a specification for doing this.

Sony doesn't even own their Sonoma recording system that they developed. It was sold to Super Audio Center in Boulder, CO. They are working with PS Audio on their new DSD recording studio. I'm looking forward to see what SACD's they release. Sony gave up on SACD, but luckily they still make universal SACD/blu ray players, that can play DSD files as well.
To my knowledge, DSD was a trademark of Sony and Philips, but in 2005, Philips sold its DSD tool division to Sonic Studio.

Sony developped the SACD disc format as a joint venture with Philips. But Sony drop lines of products as they want. Among those is the Beta Video recording system which they had developped. That might explain why many of the other disc manufacturers stopped releasing SACDs.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Ratings
284 5 1
#84
To my knowledge, DSD was a trademark of Sony and Philips, but in 2005, Philips sold its DSD tool division to Sonic Studio.

Sony developped the SACD disc format as a joint venture with Philips. But Sony drop lines of products as they want. Among those is the Beta Video recording system which they had developped. That might explain why many of the other disc manufacturers stopped releasing SACDs.
Sony Beta is still out there today in professional broadcast products.
 
markw

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,855 7 164
#85
I'm a bit late to the show so if this was mentioned previously, I apologize.

SACD is still out with limited releases there but for most consumers the difference in sound isn't worth the extra $$. But if you want multi-channel sound, it's pretty much the only game in town since DVD-Audio was buried years ago. Remember that one?
 
B

baronvonellis

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
26 1
#86
I'm a bit late to the show so if this was mentioned previously, I apologize.

SACD is still out with limited releases there but for most consumers the difference in sound isn't worth the extra $$. But if you want multi-channel sound, it's pretty much the only game in town since DVD-Audio was buried years ago. Remember that one?
There's also blu ray audio discs now, there are some new ones coming out on that as well. With blu ray's taking over from DVDs, there's no reason to use DVD audio discs. Notably Stephen Wilson releases really good albums in 5.1 on blu ray audio.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
5,895 21 47
#88
You can get a modestly priced Sony bluray disc player that can handle sacd easily enough....but seems multi-ch in the genres I'm interested in largely is dormant regarding re-releases or new releases.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic General
Ratings
679
#89
I've got Kind Of Blue on SACD. I purchased it in 2000. It's labeled STEREO/Multi-Channel SACD and it is. Until I bought an OPPO UDP-205 Universal Player in Feb. of 2018 I could only enjoy the SACD in stereo from my Sony DVP-S9000ES. Now, I get 5.1 and stereo from the OPPO. The OPPO plays out to my Sony TA-P9000ES 5.1 analog multi-channel preamplifier. Reading your post, I thought I would check again for multi-channel output; and, sure enough, I've got front left/right, center, rear left/right and subwoofer action. Maybe you have a bad SACD, or your player/amplification needs to be adjusted to permit 5.1? At any rate, I can play my SACDs, stereo or multi-channel from the OPPO via direct DSD to analog or DSD to PCM to analog. If I go the DSD to PCM route, the OPPO manages 5.1 channel crossovers and volume from each speaker. With current settings, where all channels are volume matched, there's not much sound coming from the rear speakers on Kind Of Blue. There's just enough to present a sound stage which has more breadth and depth than the stereo version of Kind Of Blue. BTW, earlier today I played a Diana Krall multi-channel SACD where rear channels as well as subwoofer are more aggressive, still the sound stage is set much like I've seen it from a Diana Krall BD.
I do have other multi-ch SACDs and some have CC and others don't.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic General
Ratings
679
#90
I'm a bit late to the show so if this was mentioned previously, I apologize.

SACD is still out with limited releases there but for most consumers the difference in sound isn't worth the extra $$.
That certainly exists.

I will say though, most consumers really don't even know SACDs exist...and many that do haven't done a true comparison.

I think it was developed as a niche market, and it was always intended to be a niche market (relative to redbook CDs) due to the costs of the playback equipment and cost of the discs. As physical media is starting to decline in popularity, production is following suit all across the board.
 
B

baronvonellis

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
26 1
#91
Yea, most people don't care about home audio at all. Most of my friends don't even have a soundbar, they just listen to the built in TV speakers, and maybe some crappy PC speakers that came with their computer for music, and $5 earbuds.
SACD came out right when Napster and music pirating was huge. Trying to convince anyone but audiophiles to buy SACD's when you could download all the music you wanted to for free, was a huge uphill battle at that time. Then on top of their format wars ect.
Now, the universal SACD players are pretty cheap, I think you can get Sony's for $150 now, if your in the market for a new blu ray or 4k player anyway. But yea now physical media in general is declining.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
955 6 27
#93
I've got Kind Of Blue on SACD. I purchased it in 2000. It's labeled STEREO/Multi-Channel SACD and it is. Until I bought an OPPO UDP-205 Universal Player in Feb. of 2018 I could only enjoy the SACD in stereo from my Sony DVP-S9000ES. Now, I get 5.1 and stereo from the OPPO. The OPPO plays out to my Sony TA-P9000ES 5.1 analog multi-channel preamplifier. Reading your post, I thought I would check again for multi-channel output; and, sure enough, I've got front left/right, center, rear left/right and subwoofer action. Maybe you have a bad SACD, or your player/amplification needs to be adjusted to permit 5.1? At any rate, I can play my SACDs, stereo or multi-channel from the OPPO via direct DSD to analog or DSD to PCM to analog. If I go the DSD to PCM route, the OPPO manages 5.1 channel crossovers and volume from each speaker. With current settings, where all channels are volume matched, there's not much sound coming from the rear speakers on Kind Of Blue. There's just enough to present a sound stage which has more breadth and depth than the stereo version of Kind Of Blue. BTW, earlier today I played a Diana Krall multi-channel SACD where rear channels as well as subwoofer are more aggressive, still the sound stage is set much like I've seen it from a Diana Krall BD.
That Kind of Blue SACD came with the Sony DVP-S9000ES that I had bought in the early 2000's. Unless your 9000ES was not properly set up which I doubt, I suspect that it was not functioning properly because mine played the 5 channels. Don't forget that the SACD format as jointly developed by Sony and Philips was indeed a 5 channel surround playback format. That is the reason Sony was including the Davis album with the player to demonstrate the new surround playback format then.
 
Last edited:
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
955 6 27
#94
I do have other multi-ch SACDs and some have CC and others don't.
Same situation with some of my SACDs.
I think it was developed as a niche market, and it was always intended to be a niche market (relative to redbook CDs) due to the costs of the playback equipment and cost of the discs. As physical media is starting to decline in popularity, production is following suit all across the board.
However, to my knowledge, the release of new SACDs doesn't seem to reduce for the classical music products. It still continues with Chandos, Capriccio, BIS and some other European classical music labels.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic General
Ratings
679
#95
Same situation with some of my SACDs.


However, to my knowledge, the release of new SACDs doesn't seem to reduce for the classical music products. It still continues with Chandos, Capriccio, BIS and some other European classical music labels.
Good point...I have a handful of classical multi-ch SACDs but I don't follow the genre closely enough to know about new releases, so that's good to know. Obviously a supply and demand situation, but generally speaking, physical media is slowing down.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
955 6 27
#96
Good point...I have a handful of classical multi-ch SACDs but I don't follow the genre closely enough to know about new releases, so that's good to know. Obviously a supply and demand situation, but generally speaking, physical media is slowing down.
Should you want to try a new classical SACD, I would recommend without hesitation any Chandos or BIS disc. The recording engineers do an amazing work and you can enjoy them without question.
Linn, the Scottish company that makes expensive audio equipment, used to release SACDs which had an amazing performance on their own brand label but they stopped making them. However, they still produce good CDs for both the classical and jazz markets.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
5,895 21 47
#97
Are most of those classical SACDs being issued in multi-ch or primarily stereo? That seems a crowd that often poopoohs multich audio nor uses multi-channel gear. Is it the supposed higher quality that keeps 2ch classical SACDs flowing? At least I don't get a majority of classical SACDs when I search a catalog by "multi-channel SACD".
 
Joe B

Joe B

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
445 1
#98
Are most of those classical SACDs being issued in multi-ch or primarily stereo? That seems a crowd that often poopoohs multich audio nor uses multi-channel gear. Is it the supposed higher quality that keeps 2ch classical SACDs flowing? At least I don't get a majority of classical SACDs when I search a catalog by "multi-channel SACD".
I hope you don't mind me joining in the conversation at this point.

Are most of those classical SACDs being issued in multi-ch or primarily stereo? multi-channel.
prestoclassical.com currently has 3,934 different multi-channel SACD's in their inventory.

Is it the supposed higher quality that keeps 2ch classical SACDs flowing? Classical SACD's are released in multi-channel. There really aren't 2 channel classical SACD's out there (at least I've never run across any). The only 2 channel SACD's I have in my collection are rock CD's that have been remastered and released as SACD. The "supposed" higher quality and remastering is what is keeping companies like Mobile Fidelity in the SACD market.

At least I don't get a majority of classical SACDs when I search a catalog by "multi-channel SACD" try this link to prestoclassical.com:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/formats/sacd/browse

That seems a crowd that often poopoohs multich audio nor uses multi-channel gear. That is true for many, possibly the majority of classical music listeners. But there are enough classical listeners out there with muli-channel systems to keep many labels in the SACD game.
 
A

Andrein

Full Audioholic
Ratings
83 8 1
#99
Are most of those classical SACDs being issued in multi-ch or primarily stereo? That seems a crowd that often poopoohs multich audio nor uses multi-channel gear. Is it the supposed higher quality that keeps 2ch classical SACDs flowing? At least I don't get a majority of classical SACDs when I search a catalog by "multi-channel SACD".
I have a number of classical discs where in one box you have 2ch cd disk and multichannel sacd or dvd-a disk. With the same content. At least for the disks I have multich always wins.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic General
Ratings
679
Should you want to try a new classical SACD, I would recommend without hesitation any Chandos or BIS disc. The recording engineers do an amazing work and you can enjoy them without question.
Linn, the Scottish company that makes expensive audio equipment, used to release SACDs which had an amazing performance on their own brand label but they stopped making them. However, they still produce good CDs for both the classical and jazz markets.
Thanks for that tidbit on the classical SACDs.

Linn ...familiar, my very 1st hifi system was based around a pair in Linn Index book shelf speakers. The sales guy practically begged me to buy the Linn Sondek turntable with the system, but I had recently sold all my LPs and had moved on to CDs.
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis