Which speaker company do you think has the biggest "fan boys"

[evan]

Marketing 101

Band Aid, Q-Tips, Coke= Adhesive bangages, cotton swab, cola

 

[Penny]

They're not doing anything that hasn't been done before. If I can remember some of the other companies that have made the same kind of speakers I'll post em.

I don't know these guys from Adam. I've just seen them for the past few months over at A'gon and read their stories and some of the reviews. InTheIndustry was talking about wanting to take a chance on someone and I just threw him a bone.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Did you really mean the company with the "biggest" fanboys, or did you mean "the most" fanboys? It's hard to judge a fan's size on the internet.

The purpose of the OP was to interpret "fanboy" however you want to. It is your opinion and you can defend your opinion in any way you want! Power to the internet!

 

[Sheep]

What InTheIndustry says is the truth. Also called Marketing 101.
No DIY or hand-made "boutique" speaker will ever be able to compete with the larger mass marketed companies. They may be equal or better than some manufacturers in sound quality and yet never be successful in any market. They will always be a specialized niche in the market. They will either be lumped in the "kit" type items such as PE/RS merchandise or they will be high end special order items that the average person can't afford.

Yes, you can build a speaker from blueprints and parts you can order on-line. But you can also build a hovercraft from blueprints you can buy in the back of Popular Science. For most people, buying the blueprints is as far as the project every goes.

And in case you didn't know, PRIDE is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins. This is what this thread is really boils down to.

Now lighten up.

I don't think you really understand just how much research and development has gone into WmAx's design thus far. NO speaker is going to be like it in the world. None. The high end B&Ws have zero resonance, but WmAx's desgin also has a flat polar response. No mass marketed speaker could compete with his old speakers either. I think you need to read Jaxvon's thread again. He has heard some of the top contenders in the retail world, and still was blown away by what his design could do.

SheepStar

 

[Penny]

I don't think you really understand just how much research and development has gone into WmAx's design thus far. NO speaker is going to be like it in the world. None. The high end B&Ws have zero resonance, but WmAx's desgin also has a flat polar response. No mass marketed speaker could compete with his old speakers either. I think you need to read Jaxvon's thread again. He has heard some of the top contenders in the retail world, and still was blown away by what his design could do.

SheepStar

So I take it, you're WmAx's Fanboy. Well good for you.

 

[Soundman]

Originally Posted by Soundman View Post

I don't see what the big deal is about this thread. Yes, there are a lot of posts, but what's wrong with the owner of a company posting information to allow his customer's to save some money. This is a great marketing strategy, IMO. There are many businesses that do the exact same thing. If you don't offer bargains, you will soon be out of business, especially in a market as saturated as this industry is. Also, keep in mind that MLS has worked with several companies that manufacture very expensive speakers. Look at his resume before you criticize the guy. He's helped develop speakers that cost $100,000. Later, he started his own company in an effort to make speakers more affordable. He has brought in other well-known designers to help design some of their product lines. Honestly, I'm very happy for the ID's. I think that the ID companies have helped keep prices down. I've noticed that dealer prices have gotten much more competitive in recent years. This is a win win for the consumer.
I hope this doesn't come across as being an AV123 fanboy...oh, wait! that's what this thread is about, right? Seriously though, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Rocket line to everyone. Different people like different things and there are a whole lot of really nice speakers out there every bit as good as these. i think what it comes down to is getting a good deal (i bought mine at just the right time and got 50% off. i don't see this happening for a long time, so i took the plunge). Its all about the price/performance ratio, and being proud of your purchase.

baaaahhhhh! baaaaahhhhhh!

Not sure what your statement is suppose to mean. If you'd like to have an intelligent conversation, post something that makes sense.

 

[Sheep]

So I take it, you're WmAx's Fanboy. Well good for you.

More Research and development, but considering he is the only one building speakers based on that criteria, it can seem like Fanboyism.

SheepStar

 

[InTheIndustry]

I understand why you don't like DIY (you're In The Industry, they don't give you business), but to say they can't do anything as good as a B&M, is nothing short of bulls***.

If you really want to help get a good DIY build into the market, wait for WmAx to finished building his speakers.

SheepStar

Please re-read what you quoted from me.

For the record, I have nothing against the DIY industry because that's not my target market. I'm on the completely opposite end and compete ZERO with DIY folks or the people who sell the books or programs to make DIY possible. As far as marketing a DIY kit, I don't care about that either. I would be more interestead in taking a great design and going to market with it and selling it regionally to A/V dealers or online only.

I didn't say I didn't like DIY. I clearly stated quite the contrary. See paragraph 3 in the quote.

Nor did I make a statement or imply anywhere near the idea that DIY cannot produce a product as good as B&M. Please re-read paragraph 2 in the quote. My issue is with their blind faith or outrageous claims that their DIY product is better than another without ever owning or trying the "inferior" b&m design. Not only that, but they ALWAYS bring up cost/benefit to show superiority which is completely unrealistic because a one-off design for personal use does not have the tremendous cost+ attached to it that a mass marketed piece does. Apparently there isn't a CAD program for practical business sense.

I specifically stated the reasons that DIYers are the biggest fanboys and why those fanboys are the worst. Period. I said NOTHING about the quality of their performance, which I can't comment on because how could I possibly see &hear every DIY piece out there? I try not to speak in absolutes unless noted.

 

[avaserfi]

Fanboys are created out of simple psychology. If someone invests their money and/or time in a specific product or company the purchaser/builder congative dissonance is created if it is no longer perceived as the best. Once this attachment is made, depending on interest and/or investment in the subject, Person X must defend their product or company in order to minimize this dissonance and increasing bias. After all, no one wants to believe they made the wrong choice. This situation is exemplified in the AV world by the high definition war where large forums, this included, had problems with blind fools arguing over merits of each side simply because they invested a couple hundred dollars to a side.

Specifically in regards to which companies has the most prevalent (viral?) fan boys it seems to be cyclical, depending on product release, but does seem centralized around online companies. This emphasis of internet direct manufacturers within online forums is not to surprising in my eyes as the two are related in certain ways.

The most recent large scale fanboyism that I recall was centralized around the AV123 MFW 15 which over a few days became a highly recommended subwoofer on this forum despite the fact that it had yet to be released and virtually no one had heard it or had seen credible measurements on the subwoofer.

Personally, I would be classified as a fanboy of credible research and ideal implementation of this research. Due to this I could care less where a product comes from as long as it performs appropriately. Alas, few products (both commercial and DIY) live to these expectations due to a variety of factors.

 

[InTheIndustry]

More Research and development, but considering he is the only one building speakers based on that criteria, it can seem like Fanboyism.

SheepStar

To make sure I understand you correctly: WmAX is the only one, on Earth, building speakers based on research & development?

You're really not trying to say that, are you?

Please elaborate.

 

[fredk]

This is getting fun...

Fred

 

[mike c]

i find myself in the reverse position. the saying "the grass is always greener" is much more applicable to me than the need to justify my purchase.

 

[3db]

Excellent ham, though not a brand just a type of ham done by many different ham processors (brands). Now, Boar's Head is a darn good brand of hams.

Having said that, I consider myself pretty neutral, but have to admit that sort of a PSB fanboy; I own them and think they provide the best bang for the buck in the market. From what I have read pro-reviewers and customers agree with me.

BTW, 3db is a big PSB fanboy, and has not said anything about it.

Here I am > I'm ususally on during work days and not weekends. Yep PSB.

Psst, Did I just ruin something for you?

 

[InTheIndustry]

I don't think you really understand just how much research and development has gone into WmAx's design thus far. NO speaker is going to be like it in the world. None. The high end B&Ws have zero resonance, but WmAx's desgin also has a flat polar response. No mass marketed speaker could compete with his old speakers either. I think you need to read Jaxvon's thread again. He has heard some of the top contenders in the retail world, and still was blown away by what his design could do.

SheepStar

Again, this is another example of bringing personal feelings into a discussion about speakers (fanboys, really). Nobody brought up WmAx or questioned his technical ability to build a great speaker. But, I'll question his ability to build a speaker that can be sold at mass market and everything that goes along with it all day. That's a totally different animal as the Major pointed out.

I have read Jaxvon's thread and fail to see how his listening to "top contenders" applies to fanboys or anything else for that matter. You're speaking off of 2nd & 3rd hand knowledge and believing one persons accounts and opinions as absolute. Even now, as Avaserfi pointed out, you're hyping something based on blind faith that isn't even made yet.

As far as the speaker in Jaxvon's thread goes, there's NO WAY that could be sold in a B&M shop as it was built. I don't care if Jesus milled the cabinet and King Midas assembled whatever the "F" makes up the tweeter. No way a consumer walks into a store, sees that, and buys it. No matter how good it sounds. Real life just doesn't work that way. Now, if he could make it prettier, that's a different story. He's an engineer who wants quality, plain and simple. The speaker in Jaxvon's thread was 100% function and 0% form. That just doesn't fly too high with mass market gear.

I would love to hear one of WmAx's designs. He's obviously an extremely passionate engineer and I'm sure it shows when you listen to his speakers. I would gladly like to see a quote for these speakers he's building and maybe I could buy a pair some day. Who knows?

 

[Seth=L]

WmAx modified some Infinity Primus bookshelf speakers to be virtually non-resonate (which apparently annoys him a great deal). He uses an EQ to flatten the response, which of course makes most audiophiles cringe. Marketing such designs to the audiophile community would be near impossible. I am personally very interested in getting something modified by him being that I get to keep all the original parts not used in the custom build (so if for some reason I don't like it I can always revert back to what I had). It's not likely I would experience anything like that, but just in case.

The PS3 thing, I don't play many games on the PS3 myself. I was simply bringing up the 360 because I have seen much more fanboism on the 360 than the PS3 (comparing it as a gaming system). Now many the PS3 owners are excited because they got into Blu-ray camp and in a way won the format war (not really won though).

I am a Teac Reference series fan, but I don't think it's appropriate to recommend it to every person I see asking about getting a receiver or whatever. I don't recommend speakers typically unless it's budget speakers (mostly because its just hard enough to find speakers for under $1000 for a home theater). I do recommend subwoofers I have never heard if there are credible second party measurements (typically). I have recommended the MFM-15 from AV123 before based on their measurements (I guess I am not perfect).

For receivers, I typically recommend what I view to be the best value while fitting into a budget, speaker drivability, and features needed for the individual. Last year it was always the Onkyo TX-SR805, but this year the Yamaha receivers really seem to have it going on.

 

[Sheep]

To make sure I understand you correctly: WmAX is the only one, on Earth, building speakers based on research & development?

You're really not trying to say that, are you?

Please elaborate.

No, his speakers, will be 1 of a kind in performance. And just because companies make speakers, does not mean they do it by the books. Bose is a great example. The stereophile measurements that come with loud speaker reviews are great, they tell a better story then the review themselves.

Seth, WmAx's Infinity's are not his "old" system. Those are his monitors, and they are not totally resonance free. His new speakers will be though.

I have read Jaxvon's thread and fail to see how his listening to "top contenders" applies to fanboys or anything else for that matter. You're speaking off of 2nd & 3rd hand knowledge and believing one persons accounts and opinions as absolute. Even now, as Avaserfi pointed out, you're hyping something based on blind faith that isn't even made yet.

Not blind Faith, WmAx has data on his design and how it will behave. I don't have access to this stuff though. Needles to say, it out performs some of the best retail offerings.

As far as the speaker in Jaxvon's thread goes, there's NO WAY that could be sold in a B&M shop as it was built. I don't care if Jesus milled the cabinet and King Midas assembled whatever the "F" makes up the tweeter. No way a consumer walks into a store, sees that, and buys it. No matter how good it sounds. Real life just doesn't work that way. Now, if he could make it prettier, that's a different story. He's an engineer who wants quality, plain and simple. The speaker in Jaxvon's thread was 100% function and 0% form. That just doesn't fly too high with mass market gear.

That was the old system. Are you saying you would compromise in performance because of how it looks? That isn't a very good principle to have if you're trying to get the best. His new speakers will look normal though.

I would love to hear one of WmAx's designs. He's obviously an extremely passionate engineer and I'm sure it shows when you listen to his speakers. I would gladly like to see a quote for these speakers he's building and maybe I could buy a pair some day. Who knows?

IIRC is was around $10,000 for everything. Obviously he can't mass produce these but I never said he would. I said, if there is a DIY speaker you would like to see become available for retail (because you claimed you have lots of pull), this would be the one to help. Whether or not WmAx wants your help, or wants his personal design used by others, is up to him.

SheepStar

 

[Guangui]

This is getting fun...

Fred

Yep, I can see a storm brewing. I live in the middle of Hurricane Alley, this is going to get fun...

 

[WmAx]

WmAx modified some Infinity Primus bookshelf speakers to be virtually non-resonate (which apparently annoys him a great deal). He uses an EQ to flatten the response, which of course makes most audiophiles cringe.

In reference to the modified Primus 160 bookshelf speaker: This was a project that I ended up doing after measuring the raw drivers in that system and discovering that in fact, they are of extraordinary quality, but being used in a mediocre cabinet with a fair at best crossover. I saved the outer shell shape, removed the vinyl, applied a quality walnut veneer and removed all internal bracing from the cabinet. I added in 0.5" of asphalt based visco-elastic damping material and then adhered a 0.75" secondary inner enclosure over this to create a substantial constrained layer wall. For bracing, I installed an inter-crossed cage of solid oak leaving no more than 3" from any point to another not directly tied into an opposing cabinet side. The crossover was removed and replaced with an active DSP crossover - and some EQ was applied in the crossover to create a more linear response. All speaker crossovers use a form of 'EQ' to achieve a target response. However, an active DSP device allows a greater degree of adjustment/control. The Primus 160 module at subject here was used for mid/treble only, and matching modular stereo woofer cabinets were added. This set-up is used for my computer speakers.

-Chris

 

[Guangui]

Here I am > I'm ususally on during work days and not weekends. Yep PSB.

Psst, Did I just ruin something for you?

There is someone here that doesn't believe PSB is probably the best bang for the buck...How can that be??? Obviously, there are better, and PSB cannot have the same effect on all their speaker series. But, it is fun to see people jump at comments like the one I made.

I can see a storm forming in the horizon...LOL

 

[WmAx]

Nobody brought up WmAx or questioned his technical ability to build a great speaker. But, I'll question his ability to build a speaker that can be sold at mass market and everything that goes along with it all day. That's a totally different animal as the Major pointed out.

You are absolutely correct. Retail speakers must have a certain profit margin, and be cheap enough at a final retail cost to be attractive(in both price and looks) to a specific customer base. I can, if required, make them attractive, but I don't know how to bring down cabinet construction costs without substantially reducing performance. This would mean that a retail speaker that I designed would only be of high cost to the final buyer - a seemingly tough situation for an 'upstart' speaker line of which was previously unknown. It is unfortunate that performance alone is not sufficient to insure a successful product, as I can optimize every known relevant performance parameter in relation to the credible perceptual research.

-Chris