Which speaker company do you think has the biggest "fan boys"

[Penny]

Alright, Sparky, let's "face it"... What could "all the corporate manufacturers" do much better?


I cannot believe I left out DIY Guy. These are the worst fanboys period and it's not even close. It seems that a lot of DIYers cannot remove the personal pride & attachment they have towards their Frankenspeaker and thus are blinded by it when recommending something to someone. The above quote is an excellent example. It has nothing to add to the thread except to promote DIY views. It's like some of them are old holdover hippies: keep on truckin' & fight the man!

They lurk around every thread, popping in just to drop an anecdote on how the sub they built in their garage is better than anything in the (for example) JLAudio line, and thus, people are idiots for not doing it themselves. Sure, they've never heard or owned a JL, but they're certain the one they've built is better.

Personally, I honestly do think DIY is a really cool hobby and passion for people who love audio. Some amazing products can be gotten or had through DIY and I greatly appreciate the personal attachment DIYers have towards their hand built creations. Many manufacturers have started that way. The venom I have towards DIY Guy is brought on by their incessant need to interject DIY into threads that have nothing to do with it, make silly claims (I can build the greatest pre-amp in the world for > $30, for example), and pretend to be smarter because they chose DIY.

In the past, I've genuinely & enthusiastically offered to DIYers to pay for a pair of speakers or one of their subs. Payment up front for materials/shipping & final payment upon delivery. I didn't expect anything for free or even at cost. I would just ask for a quote, even encouraging them to add a worth while profit (I would NEVER expect something for nothing). I stopped bothering with them because they'd never step up.

If someone could make a legitimately great, original piece that could conceivably be built & offered for a reasonable amount (doesn't matter: low-fi, mid-fi, or hi-fi) so we could market and sell it, I'd even look into going into business with them or helping them do it themselves (I am "InTheIndustry", you know). I have tons and tons and tons of contacts in the A/V world both in mfg, marketing, disty, custom, driver technologies, etc. that we could use. But no one's even come close to stepping up & following through.

To me, that's why DIY Guys are the worst fanboys. It just seems to be all bark.

I hate to copy your entire quote but it's all pertinent. You need to speak with the guys at Cardersound. They're brand new but they are onto something pretty special. Here's a link:
http://cardersound.tech.officelive.com/default.aspx

 

[fredk]

Oh man! Now I want smoked ham for lunch!

Guangui. Interesting story about PSB. I was in a 'high end' audio store trying to audition stuff. They had PSB on the floor and other stuff in the listening rooms. Wouldn't let me listen to the PSBs next to the premium stuff. "those rooms are reserved for our better brands".

InTheIndustry. I agree, very smart. If he were in charge of B&W he would be telling you why buying from a big reputable company with xx years of R&D is sooo worth the premium.

Gotta go buy some ham now.

Fred

 

[majorloser]

Spam, Spam, Spam...

Ham...yummy...

BTW, Rite Aid had a sale on SPAM about two weeks ago, 2 for $5. I couldn't resist, bought 2 cans. Those things are really tasty, brings back good memories. Although too much of that stuff will give you a heart attack. Oh well.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Excellent ham, though not a brand just a type of ham done by many different ham processors (brands). Now, Boar's Head is a darn good brand of hams.

Having said that, I consider myself pretty neutral, but have to admit that sort of a PSB fanboy; I own them and think they provide the best bang for the buck in the market. From what I have read pro-reviewers and customers agree with me.

BTW, 3db is a big PSB fanboy, and has not said anything about it.

This is a very good quote to work with in terms of being a fanboy. A rep has been harping on me to pick the line up when our new show room opens in May. He's sent me a decent amount of samples to try over the past few months.

Keeping your above statment in mind...

The non-fanboy way to view PSB (or any other line for that matter) is to always remember that no one manufacturer makes every thing well. There is always at least something that just gets out performed in it's market space. So, to say that PSB is the best bang for the buck in all of speaker mfg is really unfair, unless you've compared the entire line, or point out specific parts &/or models of it.

I agree with you on PSB to the point of saying that they do make some models that are really tough to beat and perform at the highest level of their price point, but they also have some that are way underperforming for the $. It's all a matter of opinion (that's what the subjective speaker thread OP gets exactly right), execution, and environment.

A manufacturer will often times leave a speaker line out for years. It's only natural that a company, like PSB for example, eventually has their speakers trumped by another brand after a period of time. Therefore, thinking that one brand always offers "best value" across the board, cannot be correct because the market is sooooo competitive. It all depends on when you're auditioning.

Example:

PSB's brand new Synchrony line targets the upper mid-fi market. And succeeds incredibly. Ever hear the Synchrony One? Wow! A true "deal" @ $4500.

Conversely, PSB's VisionSound flat panel line needs to now go away and be redesigned. So many advancements in flat panel speaker systems (cosmetically alone, they're extremely dated) form nearly every manufacturer has just left this line behind. At first, the rep didn't want to even send me sample because he said they just can't compete with what we currently do. He did not recommend them. He was nice and did anyway, and I have to agree. They're OK, and probably were the cat's meow a few years ago. Just not any more.

The above example is EVERYWHERE in the A/V market. Not just with PSB or speaker lines.

Make sense?

 

[codexp3]

I hate to copy your entire quote but it's all pertinent. You need to speak with the guys at Cardersound. They're brand new but they are onto something pretty special. Here's a link:
http://cardersound.tech.officelive.com/default.aspx

Pretty special is right. They deliver them on a very special "short" delivery truck if you know what I mean...I love the single driver, giant double vented look...I bet they cursh anything Wilson makes! Seriously, if those speakers showed up at my door for free, I don't think I'd let them in the house!

 

[calnbs]

MLS is a nice guy, but nice just gets you so far. Let's be honest AV123 puts out a very good product at a good price. Do I consider AV123 a bargain? Not at all. Do I consider their products good enought to recommend? Definitely yes.

You have to back up your marketing with good product. AV123 has managed to do that.

Having said that, I still prefer PSB. I can go and hear them at a store, well known for their R&D efforts, good quality, and pricing that goes head to head with the best ID's out there. As an example, IMO, PSB Image Series (T45/T55/T65) competes very favorably with AV123 Rocket Series. Rocket will only outshine PSB with their RS850, and their looks. Have any of your compared pricing between both series??? Rockets are more expensive.

I agree. Product must be good enough for him to not only stay in business but it's booming and expanding as we speak.

As a former business owner, I have a lot of respect for the way he runs his business. Does his style fit everyone? NO. But I guess its good enough to keep him in business. Whether you agree with his tactics or not, ATLEAST HE OWNS HIS BUSINESS. How many of you guys can say that....LOL. If anyone who feels they can top MLS/AV123, by all means....feel free too. The more competition, the better. I have only one loyalty....and that is MY MONEY.

 

[InTheIndustry]

I hate to copy your entire quote but it's all pertinent. You need to speak with the guys at Cardersound. They're brand new but they are onto something pretty special. Here's a link:
http://cardersound.tech.officelive.com/default.aspx

See, that's cool. I checked out their site and I like what they're trying to do. If they perform like they say, what a great deal. Problem with selling the speaker nationally & on a large scale will be the esthetics. However, a lot of "HI-Fi" companies have funky odd looking speakers and make Millions. Question is, can Cardersound continue to sell their speakers @ > $2500 and build a strong company out of it?

And, yes, something like that, only more refined, would be a really fun thing to work with a true DIY engineer on. I'd love to find one to work with that has reasonable expectations, values, ideas, and patience.

 

[Penny]

Pretty special is right. They deliver them on a very special "short" delivery truck if you know what I mean...I love the single driver, giant double vented look...I bet they cursh anything Wilson makes! Seriously, if those speakers showed up at my door for free, I don't think I'd let them in the house!

Is that a fact? I'm sure they wouldn't fit into your decor anyway, what with all the pizza boxes, hypodermic needles and illegitimate children laying around.

You stick to whatever it is you're doing, 'cause it's working man. You're a class act bro.

 

[codexp3]

Is that a fact? I'm sure they wouldn't fit into your decor anyway, what with all the pizza boxes, hypodermic needles and illegitimate children laying around.

You stick to whatever it is you're doing, 'cause it's working man. You're a class act bro.

I love the personal attack, you’re very quick witted. I can tell you have a very exquisite sense of aesthetics. I’m not a big pizza fan, but you may find the occasional hypodermic needle in my home, as I do practice medicine.

 

[Guangui]

In the Industry,

I agree, and don't agree with you...Yes, there are many brands out there, and not a single one can cater to everyone, nor can perform to their best in all their series.

Yes, PSB has to redesigned their Vision Series. Paradigm Cinema 330 and MA R225 perform better at a more economic price.

Synchrony One is $4500.00/pr. but has been given a classification of Class A by Stereophile, comparing them to speakers that are in the $12K range. Still a great bang for the buck in their price range.

Image Series are constantly raved about by reviewers and users. Rated above Paradigm Monitor Series, Focal 700 Series, B&W 600 Series by many. All within the same price range.

Alpha B considered the best speaker in the $500.00, and a top 10 in the $1K range. Not bad for a speaker sold at $250.00/pr. Best budget speaker according to Stereophile.

Having said that, their list of accomplishments is pretty big.

Now, as for ID's go, very few people know Salk. Their Salk Song Towers are also constantly being compared to speakers at more than twice their $1500.00/pr. price. Take into consideration that Salk's marketing is nearly non-existent. They let their product talk for itself.

And as for me...Well after all this is a fanboy thread...

 

[Penny]

I love the personal attack, you’re very quick witted. I can tell you have a very exquisite sense of aesthetics. I’m not a big pizza fan, but you may find the occasional hypodermic needle in my home, as I do practice medicine.

What, Voodoo? On the internet we can all be whatever we want to be. I'm a shepherd.

 

[bandphan]

full range drivers are very interesting in the since of no crossovers. I remeber hearing a lowther system with a 10 watt tube amp and was truly blown away. I think the driver had an effiency rating around 100db, 1watt 1meter.

 

[fredk]

Rated above Paradigm Monitor Series

See, now I am with Industry dude on this. I have listened to a couple of the Montors and wasn't impressed, at least not compared to the Studios.

However, I know of one person who listened to the Monitor11 and compared it very favourably to Axiom's M80 which in turn is very comparable to the Studio 100. In my book, that makes it a pretty good speaker.

Having now done several comparisons that were the same as his, I am comfortable with his reviews.

When I was making my decision on what to buy I pretty much ignored the "blows everything else away" type of comments. They didn't tell me anything about the speaker and how it sounded.

I personally think if you are going to compare, make it specific and actually characterize the speakers you are comparing.

For instance, when I compared the monitor 7 to the Studio 40 The monitors had a 'muddy' sound. There was detail missing across the spectrum. It was really noticable on the vocals, which sounded much more real and there. Same on the high end where there was just more detail in the instruments. I couldn't tell you about the soundstage for the Monitor 7 because I didn't listen to them long enough. After listening to the Studio 40 they just wern't clear enough.

If, on the other hand, I just wrote that the Studio 40 blows away the Monitor 7 I have told you nothing other than I like the 40s.

If its not detailed and specific, it fits in the 'fanboy' realm.

Fred

 

[jostenmeat]

Dude, the last time I checked, SVS was a speaker company! I mean, they make speakers. Doesn't that make them a speaker company

Yes, soon after I submitted my post, I realized the incorrect grammar I had used, although perhaps I did not appreciate the full extent of my errors. I had presumed people would still understand what I was trying to say, yet I will help you further clarify just how bad the usage was.

Both SVS and Sony make speakers. I should know as I've recommended the SVS set before to others, and that Sony had the top-rated speakers according to Consumer Reports, which I understand is not a highly regarded source for things audio. I just happened to have a CR subscription and was curious a couple of years ago on what they thought.

I also mistakenly used the term speaker "companies" and then created my short list of products (or owners). Please excuse my mistakes. I used to be pretty good about typing on-line, but after several thousand posts it appears I have become lazy.

I hope my efforts will allow me to not have to suffer posts that I regard as a waste of space and time.

PS3 owners? Only a 360 fanboy would accuse a PS3 "OWNER" of being a "fanboy". We own a PS3, it's got brawn. The 360's got all the games though (but I don't play many games and the PS3 gets used a lot for movies). The 360 and PS3 both have certain things about them that appeal to a certain audience, neither platform is technically "better" in my opinion.

Well, then you truly assume too much. I guess I can't blame someone of your youth, who I might assume enjoys video games to a great extent. I've owned two video game systems, both in the 80's, being an Atari 2600 (?) and some silver Texas Instruments. I have borrowed a couple of different systems in my lifetime, namely a Nintendo 64 to play Goldeneye, and a PS2 to play Hot Shots 3. I've played a bit of Starcraft many years ago. The only video game I've stuck to for any decent amount of time is chess, mostly of the bullet and blitz variety, at ICC. I've logged tens of thousands of games in the last dozen years (but a typical game lasts two minutes!).

Yet, I still rank PS3 owners to have the worst collection of fanboys I've met. I've run into them at several different forums and sub-forums. However, now that InTheIndustry mentions DIYers as being pretty bad, I have to agree that the very worst individual AV fanboy I have met was just that. Ps3 owners still have the strongest overall fanboy representation, IMO. However, please understand that I appreciate the number of people being represented is much greater here. Before PS3 owners starting rearing their heads, I had SVS as the #1 collection of fanboys. Of course, this is just all my opinion. I did feel bad as I became so tired of SVS fanboys, I "bit off the head" of one unsuspecting owner who did not deserve it. It was the other SVS compatriots who happened to raise my frustration level at that time.

In the Industry,

I agree, and don't agree with you...Yes, there are many brands out there, and not a single one can cater to everyone, nor can perform to their best in all their series.

Yes, PSB has...
And as for me...Well after all this is a fanboy thread...

IMO, the Alpha line suffers too much. Im usually playing around with much larger budgets, but I do believe the step-up to at least the Image line is close to mandatory... although I understand that could be a very unfair statement! However, I never really started to propose B25s to others until they were being had for $300 brand new A-stock. As I believe IntheIndustry has already alluded to, it's all about the "sweet spots" in a line up... right?

 

[Soundman]

Hey Soundman, here's one that was started a couple of days ago by MLS and this is only 1 of many that have ocurred over the last week:

http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=30804

I don't see what the big deal is about this thread. Yes, there are a lot of posts, but what's wrong with the owner of a company posting information to allow his customer's to save some money. This is a great marketing strategy, IMO. There are many businesses that do the exact same thing. If you don't offer bargains, you will soon be out of business, especially in a market as saturated as this industry is. Also, keep in mind that MLS has worked with several companies that manufacture very expensive speakers. Look at his resume before you criticize the guy. He's helped develop speakers that cost $100,000. Later, he started his own company in an effort to make speakers more affordable. He has brought in other well-known designers to help design some of their product lines. Honestly, I'm very happy for the ID's. I think that the ID companies have helped keep prices down. I've noticed that dealer prices have gotten much more competitive in recent years. This is a win win for the consumer.
I hope this doesn't come across as being an AV123 fanboy...oh, wait! that's what this thread is about, right? Seriously though, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Rocket line to everyone. Different people like different things and there are a whole lot of really nice speakers out there every bit as good as these. i think what it comes down to is getting a good deal (i bought mine at just the right time and got 50% off. i don't see this happening for a long time, so i took the plunge). Its all about the price/performance ratio, and being proud of your purchase.

 

[Sheep]

Alright, Sparky, let's "face it"... What could "all the corporate manufacturers" do much better?


I cannot believe I left out DIY Guy. These are the worst fanboys period and it's not even close. It seems that a lot of DIYers cannot remove the personal pride & attachment they have towards their Frankenspeaker and thus are blinded by it when recommending something to someone. The above quote is an excellent example. It has nothing to add to the thread except to promote DIY views. It's like some of them are old holdover hippies: keep on truckin' & fight the man!

They lurk around every thread, popping in just to drop an anecdote on how the sub they built in their garage is better than anything in the (for example) JLAudio line, and thus, people are idiots for not doing it themselves. Sure, they've never heard or owned a JL, but they're certain the one they've built is better.

Personally, I honestly do think DIY is a really cool hobby and passion for people who love audio. Some amazing products can be gotten or had through DIY and I greatly appreciate the personal attachment DIYers have towards their hand built creations. Many manufacturers have started that way. The venom I have towards DIY Guy is brought on by their incessant need to interject DIY into threads that have nothing to do with it, make silly claims (I can build the greatest pre-amp in the world for > $30, for example), and pretend to be smarter because they chose DIY.

In the past, I've genuinely & enthusiastically offered to DIYers to pay for a pair of speakers or one of their subs. Payment up front for materials/shipping & final payment upon delivery. I didn't expect anything for free or even at cost. I would just ask for a quote, even encouraging them to add a worth while profit (I would NEVER expect something for nothing). I stopped bothering with them because they'd never step up.

If someone could make a legitimately great, original piece that could conceivably be built & offered for a reasonable amount (doesn't matter: low-fi, mid-fi, or hi-fi) so we could market and sell it, I'd even look into going into business with them or helping them do it themselves (I am "InTheIndustry", you know). I have tons and tons and tons of contacts in the A/V world both in mfg, marketing, disty, custom, driver technologies, etc. that we could use. But no one's even come close to stepping up & following through.

To me, that's why DIY Guys are the worst fanboys. It just seems to be all bark.

I understand why you don't like DIY (you're In The Industry, they don't give you business), but to say they can't do anything as good as a B&M, is nothing short of bulls***.

If you really want to help get a good DIY build into the market, wait for WmAx to finished building his speakers.

SheepStar

 

[Penny]

I don't see what the big deal is about this thread. Yes, there are a lot of posts, but what's wrong with the owner of a company posting information to allow his customer's to save some money. This is a great marketing strategy, IMO. There are many businesses that do the exact same thing. If you don't offer bargains, you will soon be out of business, especially in a market as saturated as this industry is. Also, keep in mind that MLS has worked with several companies that manufacture very expensive speakers. Look at his resume before you criticize the guy. He's helped develop speakers that cost $100,000. Later, he started his own company in an effort to make speakers more affordable. He has brought in other well-known designers to help design some of their product lines. Honestly, I'm very happy for the ID's. I think that the ID companies have helped keep prices down. I've noticed that dealer prices have gotten much more competitive in recent years. This is a win win for the consumer.
I hope this doesn't come across as being an AV123 fanboy...oh, wait! that's what this thread is about, right? Seriously though, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Rocket line to everyone. Different people like different things and there are a whole lot of really nice speakers out there every bit as good as these. i think what it comes down to is getting a good deal (i bought mine at just the right time and got 50% off. i don't see this happening for a long time, so i took the plunge). Its all about the price/performance ratio, and being proud of your purchase.

baaaahhhhh! baaaaahhhhhh!

 

[croseiv]

Did you really mean the company with the "biggest" fanboys, or did you mean "the most" fanboys? It's hard to judge a fan's size on the internet.

 

[emorphien]

I hate to copy your entire quote but it's all pertinent. You need to speak with the guys at Cardersound. They're brand new but they are onto something pretty special. Here's a link:
http://cardersound.tech.officelive.com/default.aspx

They're not doing anything that hasn't been done before. If I can remember some of the other companies that have made the same kind of speakers I'll post em.

 

[majorloser]

I understand why you don't like DIY (you're In The Industry, they don't give you business), but to say they can't do anything as good as a B&M, is nothing short of bulls***.

If you really want to help get a good DIY build into the market, wait for WmAx to finished building his speakers.

SheepStar

What InTheIndustry says is the truth. Also called Marketing 101.
No DIY or hand-made "boutique" speaker will ever be able to compete with the larger mass marketed companies. They may be equal or better than some manufacturers in sound quality and yet never be successful in any market. They will always be a specialized niche in the market. They will either be lumped in the "kit" type items such as PE/RS merchandise or they will be high end special order items that the average person can't afford.

Yes, you can build a speaker from blueprints and parts you can order on-line. But you can also build a hovercraft from blueprints you can buy in the back of Popular Science. For most people, buying the blueprints is as far as the project every goes.

And in case you didn't know, PRIDE is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins. This is what this thread is really boils down to.

Now lighten up.