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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
A video without a particular breakdown isn't particularly helpful and just giving extra clicks to someone who doesn't deserve any.....nicer if you mention what you found interesting in a video and asked questions about what you might not have understood....
It was helping me explain my question. Why do you even care? What makes a video less (nice)? And I did ask the question with the video. The video's purpose was to describe where the question came from. It helps reduce unnecessary back and forth questions. What is not (nice) about that?
 
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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
Can you keep things inforrmed?
I'm trying to keep things informed, If im not keeping things informed its not intentional. Are you just trolling at this point? This conversation is not productive, good luck my friend.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm trying to keep things informed, If im not keeping things informed its not intentional. Are you just trolling at this point? This conversation is not productive, good luck my friend.
No, just saying posting a video without some sort of summary/background is just clickbait. Not needed. Many youtube video reviews are garbage and did you even explore the library of what's here on Audioholics?

ps plus to understand what your point may or may not be we have to watch these usually bad videos?
 
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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
It was helping me explain my question. Why do you even care? What makes a video less (nice)? And I did ask the question with the video. The video's purpose was to describe where the question came from. It helps reduce unnecessary back and forth questions. What is not (nice) about that?
I meant to thank you for not taking my replies here as negative criticism regarding your room, gear or experience level. So much inflection is lost with this form of communication at times. I'm no expert either, but I have been pretty involved with hi-fi 2-channel music for the better part of 50 years by now so I have learned some workarounds to what is often (not always!) redundant, modern tech.

It's just that I see all too often where people try to throw new (and expensive) electronics and other frills at systems as a form of what amounts to EQ. Your issues are pretty common and is why we see people trying tubes, vinyl and all sorts of ways to get that "warm" sound. Since this happens so frequently, I tend to believe that perhaps these close to measurably perfect equipment goals aren't always the best answer.
 
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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
I meant to thank you for not taking my replies here as negative criticism regarding your room, gear or experience level. So much inflection is lost with this form of communication at times. I'm no expert either, but I have been pretty involved with hi-fi 2-channel music for the better part of 50 years by now so I have learned some workarounds to what is often (not always!) redundant, modern tech.

It's just that I see all too often where people try to throw new (and expensive) electronics and other frills at systems as a form of what amounts to EQ. Your issues are pretty common and is why we see people trying tubes, vinyl and all sorts of ways to get that "warm" sound. Since this happens so frequently, I tend to believe that perhaps these close to measurably perfect equipment goals aren't always the best answer.
Yeah, EQ went a long way in reducing over brightness. And Audessey also helped alot. I'm still going to try a few things with the subs. Another thing I am noticing is that I find myself having to crank up the volume to get the music to sound good. I want more punch at lover volume. :p. And YW
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
It's just that I see all too often where people try to throw new (and expensive) electronics and other frills at systems as a form of what amounts to EQ. Your issues are pretty common and is why we see people trying tubes, vinyl and all sorts of ways to get that "warm" sound. Since this happens so frequently, I tend to believe that perhaps these close to measurably perfect equipment goals aren't always the best answer.
I think that equipment should be transparent and then EQ can be added to taste. Which is what I do, anyway.
 
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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
I kind of want to add my bookshelfs as speakers B with the towers. It doesn't sound good now but I assume its because of the power? Is there a way to make it sound better? Iv got some testing to do :p
 

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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Four years ago I visited a best buy magnolia because it was the only option locally for high end audio. I bought a pair of B&W 703 S2's, a matching center speaker, and 2 SVS PB2000 subs as well as a Marantz SR7013 AVR. This combo sounded the best at the price that they had to offer.
I’ve read early on this long & rambling thread that you have B&W 703 s2 speaker towers. Later on, I read about book shelf speakers. I’m confused. Do you have both? Are they bookshelves also B&Ws? 700 or 800 series?

I also found your mention of Klipsch in-wall speakers for the rear channels. I assume the in-walls are part of your 5-channel system, the bookshelf speakers are somewhere else. Is that correct?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Anyways... I have boiled things down to either the Parasound A23+ (it falls under my AVR's voltage sensitivity or 1.2v. It has a gain of 29 and I like that it has a gain knob. I was considering the Rotel 1582 for awhile but the input sensitivity is around 1.8v I think and there is no gain knob. Another person told me that he had to push the volume higher then the standard AVR would go to get the same loudness results. That did not sound good. 2,000-2,500 ish is my budget. What would you do?
Why did they sound bad and if so wouldn't an external amp help them sound better? If not then why not?
Eppie’s post #38, as well as ski2xblack and others, have suggested that B&W speakers tend to be power hungry. I don’t disagree with them. However, it is common for people who are dissatisfied with their system’s sound to look for greater amp power to solve the problem, while ignoring the idea that their speakers may be at fault.

I strongly suspect it’s not amplifier power, nor is it room correction achieved through wall treatments or digital room EQ … it’s the speakers themselves.

If you’ve already described how your speakers sound in an earlier post in this thread, please direct me to it. If not, can you please describe just what sound from your system leaves you dissatisfied. Use any “sound quality jargon” you know, just so we know where to begin with this. It’s not easy to talk about sound quality, especially online. It’s kind of like dancing about architecture.

For what it’s worth, “fast bass & slow bass” are ways to describe woofer & sub-woofer sound quality – fast bass is good – slow bass is bad. It’s not about the onset speed of a single bass tone, it’s about how quickly or slowly that tone shuts off. If a woofer rings on & on (also called poorly damped bass or speaker over-hang), that single bass note continues longer than it should, resulting in muddy sounding bass & lower mid-range. It’s caused by improper cabinet volume (often too small) for the bass driver. Speakers with bass ringing problems are cheaper to build & ship. They sell well because they’re cheaper and they result in exaggerated (louder) upper bass. This is true for both speakers and sub-woofers.

For the time being, ignore what you heard at the Magnolia dealer. Most dealers, including Magnolia, use careful room treatments, speaker & listener placement, and music selection to highlight their higher priced products. It’s not so much dishonesty as it is misleading. It also shows off their highest priced products that also happen to provide them with the largest profit margin.

Also, switch your sub woofers off. Listen only to your speakers, played full range without any digital EQ. Sub woofers certainly help most systems, but they can confuse any effort to sort out a reason for overall sound quality problems.
 
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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, EQ went a long way in reducing over brightness. And Audessey also helped alot. I'm still going to try a few things with the subs. Another thing I am noticing is that I find myself having to crank up the volume to get the music to sound good. I want more punch at lover volume. :p. And YW
"Punch," where I come from, at least that you can feel, pretty much directly correlates to SPL. Also, for my use, 6.5" woofers are about the minimum for that effect and they better be close. Is why I prefer 8" up close, and 12-15" speakers for anything beyond that. Displacement helps here. Heck, I use 12" speakers near field that are actually known for that mid-bass punch and I still have to be listening at matching SPL relative to that effect. Otherwise, at lower levels, the effect would walk allover the rest of the sound.

At lower levels, I don't expect much other than the essence of it. This is in part what causes us to keep reaching for that volume control. Speakers need to be moving some air for that effect. I'm heading for 80db and beyond when that chest slam starts to become apparent.
 
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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
The Bookshelf speakers are 606 S2's. Yes I have both. I posted a pic. They are not part of my 5.2 setup. I would like to add them to my front towers if I can get them all to sound better together. As it is now they sound best by themselfs when playing music in 2 channel stereo mode. I'm just looking for a more full (less flat) 2 channel stereo mode. More instrument separation. More details, warmer sound, effortless. and sounding great at low volume. They do have decent imaging though. I go farther in detail back in this post. The system sounds amazing for cinema with the subs. I could not be happier with that. Like I stated before, if im not impressed I can just send them back.
 

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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
Let me add this.. In cinema mode listening to The Greatest Showman in Master Audio DTS. With the subs on, The music sounds amazing. I can listen to Tightrope all day long. The center speaker is a matching bowers speaker. I am getting a decent amount of details, clarity, and fullness. It always puts a smile on my face :) I think the main reason for this is that the subs are taking the full low frequency load. My AVR in cinema mode never goes into the yellow like it does in stereo mode. I set the towers to 60 HZ on the crossover and its magic. Instruments in the towers sound amazing as does the vocals in the center and the slam in the subs. Very immersive. The source material for 2 channel stereo is flac lossless. Both set to pass through my HTPC so that the dac in my AVR converts it via hdmi 2.1.
 
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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
Swerd said... I strongly suspect it’s not amplifier power, nor is it room correction achieved through wall treatments or digital room EQ … it’s the speakers themselves.

If that was true then why do they sound so good in Cinema mode? Also That is how I have been listening to 2 channel stereo mode. No sub.. just the towers. They sound the best when they play music by themselfs as I stated before. :) I have a preset for 2 channel stereo mode.
 
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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
Ok I have all the info that I need. Thank you all for your help. Its been an adventure.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Ok I have all the info that I need. Thank you all for your help. Its been an adventure.
Hope it goes well for you.
Out of curiosity, what are you using to play your flac music files ?
Sometimes that can be the source of poor sound issues....I'm guessing you play movies on a different device.
 
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Serithin

Junior Audioholic
Hope it goes well for you.
Out of curiosity, what are you using to play your flac music files ?
Sometimes that can be the source of poor sound issues....I'm guessing you play movies on a different device.

I use Kodi. Kodi plays everything. It has a nice GUI and it works with a PS4 controller. I don't even need a mouse or keyboard. I put all of my media onto my server/HTPC all in one. Its nice to not have to mess with disks. I feel like it has the same kind of media player quality as VLC.
 
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isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
I use Kodi. Kodi plays everything. It has a nice GUI and it works with a PS4 controller. I don't even need a mouse or keyboard. I put all of my media onto my server/HTPC all in one. Its nice to not have to mess with disks. I feel like it has the same kind of media player quality as VLC.
Kodi would then use whatever sound drivers are present on the HTPC.
So your sound quality is determined by those.

Of course, I don't know the sound capabilities of your HTPC.
Look at the audio driver selection pane in "System" and make sure Kodi is using those drivers though...it might not by default, and Kodis internal drivers sound terrible.
This is why I don't use Kodi on my Dune player, it cant use the Dunes audio drivers. I use Kodi on a Vero4K+ for my audio files, fed by a 4tb hard drive.

Then the question would be are those drivers (your HTPC sound capabilities) good ones ?
 
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