What would you do?

[Serithin]

Test setup lol

 

[Serithin]

Well after about 15 plays of Tightrope on The Greatest Showman in DTS Master Audio, I heard less of a difference then expected. They seemed subtle at best. Dynamics stayed the same but it did give a more (headphones) like effect. I tried a few different things and the bass did seem a tad tighter when I placed panels ontop of my subs. After going back and forth the differences seemed to be less. It may have been placebo lol. I tried DEQ and I immediately felt the bass get pulled down on every hit of the track. I did not like that at all. It was set to 10. The panels did reduce echo just a tad and I did like that. But was it enough to keep the panels up full time? Maybe I don't know. This was all with Audessy turned on reference. On the whole I am pleased with the sound. This is the best setup I have ever had. When I watch movies I never go out of the green ever. Its only in stereo full signal 2 channel no subs mode where I creep into the yellow. More then I like. The sound stage sounds good and the speakers disappear, the vocals coming out of the center channel are soo good . I never would have guessed the center was so important with movies before hearing it. I might go larger in the future. Again.. my problem is music. Rock in particular. When I add the subs to rock music the deep bass gets better but the mid bass gets way worse from the towers. When the subs are off the towers come alive with midbass and midbass is key. I just want that concert feel wow factor. The AVR is 110wpc 2x and the speakers are 30 minimum to 200 max Watts. I will try the other methods later. Thanks again!

 

[Serithin]

 

[Bobby Bass]

Bobby Bass.. What is the voltage output sensitivity on your sound processor or avr to the Rotel? I was looking into that amp for awhile. The only thing that has me question it is the lack of a gain knob and the high Voltage input sensitivity. But maybe those are small things. The Parasound A23+ input sensitivity was a closer match to my AVR as well as its warmth and gain of 29db as well as a gain knob. They are both priced about the same with toroidal transformers. That Rotel looks so badass though

Rotel RC-1572 MKII is the preamp into the Rotel amp. Here are the preamp specs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Keep in mind the nominal pre-out voltage level isn't particularly what the avr is capable of. Marantz regularly measures 2V from what I remember. Back to the editor app, a slight downward tilt of a house curve for the higher frequencies could be implemented for perception of "warmth". It's worth trying....

 

[Serithin]

Rotel RC-1572 MKII is the preamp into the Rotel amp. Here are the preamp specs.View attachment 68168

I bet that pair sounds sweet.

 

[Serithin]

Keep in mind the nominal pre-out voltage level isn't particularly what the avr is capable of. Marantz regularly measures 2V from what I remember. Back to the editor app, a slight downward tilt of a house curve for the higher frequencies could be implemented for perception of "warmth". It's worth trying....

Yes that did help alot. I want more dynamics in my 2 channel stereo mode. Im pretty happy with my 3.2/5.2 setup. The towers sound better in 3.2 from what I am assuming to be fewer channels drawing power.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes that did help alot. I want more dynamics in my 2 channel stereo mode. Im pretty happy with my 3.2/5.2 setup. The towers sound better in 3.2 from what I am assuming to be fewer channels drawing power.

Define what you mean by dynamics? Could be power related, might not be as to what you prefer (and this is for movies or multich music or upmixed music or ?)...but what are the surround speakers and how far away are they? Have you looked at Buckeye amps? Crown XLS?

 

[Serithin]

Wide dynamic range, punchy. Open or spacious. Also some instrument separation. Grunt. This is for 2 channel only stereo mode music. (no subs) I'm happy with multi channel movie mode. (with subs and sub amps). The surrounds are in the wall as shown in the pictures. They are a set of klipch. they are about 6 feet away from listening position. They cant go back any farther. I haven't heard of Buckeye but I have heard of the crowns. They seem to be a very good amp for the money. My budget is a little higher then the crown xlr. I feel like the Rotel RB-1582 MkII or Parasound A23+ would serve me better. Plus I would like a toroidal transformer.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wide dynamic range, punchy. Open or spacious. Also some instrument separation. Grunt. This is for 2 channel only stereo mode music. (no subs) I'm happy with multi channel movie mode. (with subs and sub amps). The surrounds are in the wall as shown in the pictures. They are a set of klipch. they are about 6 feet away from listening position. They cant go back any farther. I haven't heard of Buckeye but I have heard of the crowns. They seem to be a very good amp for the money. My budget is a little higher then the crown xlr. I feel like the Rotel RB-1582 MkII or Parasound A21+ would serve me better.

Dynamic range is generally the range of softest to loudest sounds....so still don't understand your definition. Open/spacious/instrument separation/grunt just confuse the term more. Maybe the in wall surrounds just aren't to your liking. Not sure what serves you better means....how so?

 

[Serithin]

Not sure how else to describe it. Refined sound, effortless at high volume, less distortion at high volume. full sound, warm sound, smooth as butter... You would have to hear the difference side by side. The surround sound speakers are not an issue. I don't even have them turned on with music. The good news is that most online retailers offer a 30-60 day trial. Because they know you cannot hear it until its in your home.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not sure how else to describe it. Refined sound, effortless at high volume, less distortion at high volume. full sound, warm sound, smooth as butter... You would have to hear the difference side by side. The surround sound speakers are not an issue. I don't even have them turned on with music.

That's all over the place! Sounds how some use soundstage as a wide ranging descriptor of personal preference/ideal. I don't think an amp is going to make a lot of difference, whatever brand. I'd still look to speakers and room for improvements.

 

[Serithin]

Who would not want those improvements? You just have to hear it. You have been to a concert. You know the difference between an integrated amp and a concert sound? That's what im talking about. I don't expect to get there... just to get closer. If the amp does not impress me, Il just send it back. I think Il go with the parasound.

 

[lovinthehd]

Who would not want those improvements? You just have to hear it. You have been to a concert. You know the difference between an integrated amp and a concert sound? That's what im talking about. I don't expect to get there... just to get closer. If the amp does not impress me, Il just send it back. I think Il go with the parasound.

Integrated amps ? Concerts/live music isn't reproduction either. Good luck, tho.

 

[Serithin]

Integrated amps ? Concerts/live music isn't reproduction either. Good luck, tho.

Thanks

 

[MrBoat]

Thanks

For 2-channel, when your room is in question, start from immediate near field triangle, and work your way back and toe out accordingly. This will at least tell you what your speakers sound like and how they image, where it drops off, etc. If for nothing else, it may indicate a 'plan B' sweet spot you can move a chair into that really satisfies.

I don't mess around. I don't have time or want to turn my home into a lab, so I listen like this. The small speakers on stands I am currently listening to are rated at 175wrms. I am using a fraction of that to make 85db or so. There are also two subs back there. The two larger speakers behind them are rated to 500wrms, of which I am probably pushing 4w at most that close.

I currently have Molly Hatchet on cranked pretty loud and it's very good. Dire Straits "On Every Street" is next, perhaps Boston after that. Earlier I had Jean Luc Ponty on and holy crap. A different amp would not do any better for me. It's all about the speakers. As such, the old Denon AVR is a champ at this.


No, it's not fashionable but either am I but nobody else here cares so. . .selfish works when all else fails.

 

[-Jim-]

Who would not want those improvements? You just have to hear it. You have been to a concert. You know the difference between an integrated amp and a concert sound? That's what im talking about. I don't expect to get there... just to get closer. If the amp does not impress me, Il just send it back. I think Il go with the parasound.

How about using the Subs in concert with your Stereo Speakers (with the appropriate Bass management)?

 

[Serithin]

How about using the Subs in concert with your Stereo Speakers (with the appropriate Bass management)?

I tried that a few times. Something happens to the midbass in the towers when I do that. Even with full signal going to them. I don't know what it is. The towers sound fuller without the subs.

 

[Serithin]

For 2-channel, when your room is in question, start from immediate near field triangle, and work your way back and toe out accordingly. This will at least tell you what your speakers sound like and how they image, where it drops off, etc. If for nothing else, it may indicate a 'plan B' sweet spot you can move a chair into that really satisfies.

I don't mess around. I don't have time or want to turn my home into a lab, so I listen like this. The small speakers on stands I am currently listening to are rated at 175wrms. I am using a fraction of that to make 85db or so. There are also two subs back there. The two larger speakers behind them are rated to 500wrms, of which I am probably pushing 4w at most that close.

I currently have Molly Hatchet on cranked pretty loud and it's very good. Dire Straits "On Every Street" is next, perhaps Boston after that. Earlier I had Jean Luc Ponty on and holy crap. A different amp would not do any better for me. It's all about the speakers. As such, the old Denon AVR is a champ at this.


No, it's not fashionable but either am I but nobody else here cares so. . .selfish works when all else fails.

I do this on my pool table with my 800 series bookshelf speakers when I work out.

 

[ski2xblack]

I tried that a few times. Something happens to the midbass in the towers when I do that. Even with full signal going to them. I don't know what it is. The towers sound fuller without the subs.

Ok, so you have discovered the inevitable phase shift issues when trying to blend subs with bass reflex speakers getting a full range signal. Even the 60hz setting you tried is probably too low to avoid the problem. Why not follow evidence-based best practice, and set the crossover an octave above your speakers f3? Try 80hz, recalibrate, and give another listen. You'll very likely get a more seamless blend with the subs, reduce modulation distortion, and, however slightly, ease the power demands from the AVR.