What is clipping? What causes it?

GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
I get the impression you're now being argumentative, Irv. My comments were in the context of Old Onkyo's posts, which subsequent calculations show to be reasonably accurate.

To double the apparent loudness, you need to increase power x 4-10 depending on the frequency. That's what makes the power game so monumentally stupid. People actually think they're really moving up in the world when they trade up from 50W to 100W. They also get mesmerized by wattage that isn't measured using the RMS method.

It doesn't matter if the sub is powered or not. It puts out sound energy. Therefore it's output needs to count towards total sound intensity. That's my point, which I hope you now get.

My use of 90dB/W/m had nothing to do with YOUR definition of average. It had to do with the specs of Old Onkyo's B&W speakers. If you wanted to change the context, you should have said so. Instead, you fling about your own figures. Context, old boy... do try to keep up.

The speakers aren't the problem. DM 602s and 603s are reasonably good, provided they haven't been damaged or overdriven. They should easily be capable of over 90 dB spl at 6-8 feet.

Granted, they are difficult to drive because of impedance, but their measured performance is quite good..
No sane person would listen at an average spl of 89dB. You will recall my post indicated that 30WRMS @ 8 ohms would be more than sufficient for needs... which it is, even for an idiot whose need is to fry his/her hearing!

Now since a quality amp can double power output from 8 ohms to 4 ohms (you've said so yourself elsewhere),feel free re-run your calculations at 60WRMS. They'll come pretty close to mine. It's just simple math and physics after all.

I take your point about lower rears. But 10dB? That's not even in the ball park. Are you really that desperate to skew the outcome? If you actually used the calculator, you'd see this doesn't really change the outcome enough to even matter..

So my calculations don't need to be revisited. They support my point in the context in which they were offered... by a very (un)healthy margin to boot! Now if you want to change that context, start another thread or stop trying to play stump the chump. It's silly and it makes you look so.
 
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Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
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This is my setup. All of my speakers are on the front wall, I sit ~ 10 feet away. Recently retired. I will add a new receiver or amp and another SVS p-1000 and I am done.
I can’t afford a mistake. Thanks.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Why do you have surrounds on the front wall?
I went from 90/10 HT/ music to 30/70.
Wife says I purchased the speakers in 2005, if I were buying today I would buy l/c/r and 1 or 2 subs. Music had always been my first love.
Recently retired, since I started reading this forum I am getting great sound out of my system. Fifty percent of the time I listen in Pure Audio mode.
Probably doesn’t make sense but...
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I went from 90/10 HT/ music to 30/70.
Wife says I purchased the speakers in 2005, if I were buying today I would buy l/c/r and 1 or 2 subs. Music had always been my first love.
Recently retired, since I started reading this forum I am getting great sound out of my system. Fifty percent of the time I listen in Pure Audio mode.
Probably doesn’t make sense but...
What mode do you run the surrounds in? As regular surrounds or front wides or heights? Pure audio mode would only get you 2.0 for most music, tho.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
What mode do you run the surrounds in? As regular surrounds or front wides or heights? Pure audio mode would only get you 2.0 for most music, tho.
I just play with it all day. My favorite is Dolby PL IIx, of the Onkyo modes I like orchestra, or all channel stereo, then the Pure Audio mode.
I like to call it my “ solid wall of sound” Bennie and the Jets
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I just play with it all day. My favorite is Dolby PL IIx, of the Onkyo modes I like orchestra, or all channel stereo, then the Pure Audio mode.
So you just use the surrounds hooked up to the normal surround terminals? No way to put them in proper positions?
 
GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
Music your first love? Listen in Direct Mode 50% of the time?

If you focused on a two channel integrated or pre/amp and 2.1 or 2.2 set up instead of a HTS, you'd likely get much better bang for your audio buck.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
So you just use the surrounds hooked up to the normal surround terminals? No way to put them in proper positions?
Yes and yes, I actually thought about hooking up my Klipsch to the rear surrounds to hear all seven channels playing music.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes and yes, I actually thought about hooking up my Klipsch to the rear surrounds to hear all seven channels playing music.
I wouldn't bother with the surrounds up front myself, would just go LCR/sub. You can't place them properly due WAF?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Music your first love? Listen in Direct Mode 50% of the time?

If you focused on a two channel integrated or pre/amp and 2.1 or 2.2 set up instead of a HTS, you'd likely get much better bang for your audio buck.
Not my experience, my avrs in 2ch mode hang right in there with my separates (which I only use occasionally in spare rooms, all my main systems are avr based). Integrated amps are merely receivers without a tuner, tho :)
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Music your first love? Listen in Direct Mode 50% of the time?

If you focused on a two channel integrated or pre/amp and 2.1 or 2.2 set up instead of a HTS, you'd likely get much better bang for your audio buck.
Yea I know, but at this point that’s a whole new check to write!
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
I wouldn't bother with the surrounds up front myself, would just go LCR/sub. You can't place them properly due WAF?
No, I had them in 5.1 configuration until late last year. Wife actually loves movies and never had a problem with that stup.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
No, I had them in 5.1 configuration until late last year. Wife actually loves movies and never had a problem with that stup.
You had them in a normal 5.1 setup before? I'm just trying to understand why you don't have them properly positioned.....
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
You had them in a normal 5.1 setup before? I'm just trying to understand why you don't have them properly positioned.....
I am just enjoying this right now. I’ll probably get bored and change it back in a few months. Or I might go down the two channel rabbit hole.
 
GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
I am just enjoying this right now. I’ll probably get bored and change it back in a few months. Or I might go down the two channel rabbit hole.
Buying two channels can be less expensive than buying five, all other things being equal...
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Buying two channels can be less expensive than buying five, all other things being equal...
True! I won’t be replacing the B&W’s but if I can upgrade the Onkyo Integra AVR or add an amplifier that will noticeably improve the sound I will.
I also have an Onkyo 610 / Klipsch playing two channels in another room.
 
GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
True! I won’t be replacing the B&W’s but if I can upgrade the Onkyo Integra AVR or add an amplifier that will noticeably improve the sound I will.
I also have an Onkyo 610 / Klipsch playing two channels in another room.
Consider that your current AVR isn't performing to your needs, so it has some performance limitations. Some of these could be design related and may extend to the preamp, which means that an additional amp may not give you exactly what you're looking for. It also adds another layer of complexity and balancing issues.

It's often best to have a clear goal in mind then choose the simplest and most direct means to achieve that goal.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
True! I won’t be replacing the B&W’s but if I can upgrade the Onkyo Integra AVR or add an amplifier that will noticeably improve the sound I will.
I also have an Onkyo 610 / Klipsch playing two channels in another room.
You have a full set of pre-outs on the 6.5 so you have the option of external amp, but I doubt it will noticeably improve the sound except perhaps at higher listening levels...depending on the external amp you choose of course.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
You had them in a normal 5.1 setup before? I'm just trying to understand why you don't have them properly positioned.....
Me too...
To each his own?

I think if OO is gonna use them, IMO the configuration should be pliiz not pliix.
 
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