Wanting to build a pair of top quality bookshelf speakers - Help!

[Winkleswizard]

The Zaph's have the advantage of a good set of options with a matching center (within your budget too!). If you have some reservations, let me know what they are and will figure out something.

I did look for some other alternatives, but only found either cheaper (read lower quality) stuff or older designs that had driver availability issues. Which reminded me to suggest you buy some additional drivers just in case. Unless you are willing to take the risk of not being able to fix a damaged driver, when you build your own speakers, IMHO it is worthwhile to plan for some spares.

Ww

 

[Steve1580]

The Zaph's have the advantage of a good set of options with a matching center (within your budget too!). If you have some reservations, let me know what they are and will figure out something.

I did look for some other alternatives, but only found either cheaper (read lower quality) stuff or older designs that had driver availability issues. Which reminded me to suggest you buy some additional drivers just in case. Unless you are willing to take the risk of not being able to fix a damaged driver, when you build your own speakers, IMHO it is worthwhile to plan for some spares.

Ww

Thanks you for the response, so since I would be placing these in an existing bookshelf would you recommend a sealed cabinet? Also would I be good ordering a crossover from someone like Madisound?

I am liking the idea more and more!

Thanks again for all the time you have offered.

Steve

 

[rojo]

Thanks you for the response, so since I would be placing these in an existing bookshelf would you recommend a sealed cabinet?

Try something for me. Cup your hands around your mouth and say something. Notice how the timbre changes? Now, imagine your mouth is a speaker and your cupped hands are a bookshelf. That's what you're aiming toward. Not sure whether sealed or ported will make much difference, other than sealed will have less low-end extension to get colored. It's difficult to predict how profound this coloration will be though. In any case, I hope you understand that we have reservations about this project.

Also would I be good ordering a crossover from someone like Madisound?

The crossover is not going to be an off-the-shelf generic crossover. No, the crossover design must take into account the specific driver responses, phase, and other attributes; the baffle width; and other factors. Ideally, you'll get drivers + crossover components in the same kit. Assemble the crossover and build enclosures to meet the specifications of the kit design. Don't deviate from the dimensions specified by that design, as the crossover will have been calculated for the specific width and volume of the enclosure. Optionally, some kits have the crossover available pre-assembled for an additional fee. If you're not comfortable with a soldering iron, paying the assembly fee will be a worthwhile purchase.

 

[Steve1580]

Try something for me. Cup your hands around your mouth and say something. Notice how the timbre changes? Now, imagine your mouth is a speaker and your cupped hands are a bookshelf. That's what you're aiming toward. Not sure whether sealed or ported will make much difference, other than sealed will have less low-end extension to get colored. It's difficult to predict how profound this coloration will be though. In any case, I hope you understand that we have reservations about this project.



The crossover is not going to be an off-the-shelf generic crossover. No, the crossover design must take into account the specific driver responses, phase, and other attributes; the baffle width; and other factors. Ideally, you'll get drivers + crossover components in the same kit. Assemble the crossover and build enclosures to meet the specifications of the kit design. Don't deviate from the dimensions specified by that design, as the crossover will have been calculated for the specific width and volume of the enclosure. Optionally, some kits have the crossover available pre-assembled for an additional fee. If you're not comfortable with a soldering iron, paying the assembly fee will be a worthwhile purchase.

I do understand "we are having reservations about this project", but please understand what I am trying to do, is to get some advice on how to improve the sound quality that I currently have. I understand I am taking the risk of the time and expense in building attractive cabinets, and the risk of buying a speaker kit, that I have no personal knowledge or experience with. What I am trying to do is chose the best course of action given a $750 budget for components.

I certainly cannot be the first person trying to put a bookshelf speaker in a bookshelf. I am the first to admit this is not the most ideal situation as opposed to a blank canvas, but I unfortunately I am not dealing with a blank canvas.

What my plan was was go with the kit that Madisound sells for 2 speakers:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/zaph|audio-za5.2-tm-2-way-pair/

This coupled with a crossover they say is designed for areas with "Reduced BSC Version of Crossover (for near wall, on-wall, in-shelf applications)".

Does this sound like a good option for a quality sounding setup?

There are other kits out there, but for someone with my admitted low level of knowledge on the subject, it is difficult making a decision. I fully understand I might get to to the end of this project and decide to make this someones Christmas present instead of the tie I was planning to gift them, but I would like to give it my best shot at success.

Thanks,


Steve

 

[Winkleswizard]

The Zaph crossovers from Madisound kit are pre-built and good quality. So no issue there. If you are sticking to the shelf location, select the reduced BSC version of the crossover. Note the Zaph MT was also designed as for center channel use, so unless you want the bigger box, just add one more speaker to your order.

A smaller sealed design is your best starting place - Both for flexibility and musicality. They should also be easier to match to your subwoofer. If you find they are not to your taste, you can readily apply your woodworking skills and build bigger ported boxes for them. You can use the same crossovers. Note am leaving it to you to check on possible fit options with your shelf unit...

As a reminder, you will get better sound with the speakers closer to the front of the shelf and tweeters close to ear (listening) height.

Ww

 

[Steve1580]

The Zaph crossovers from Madisound kit are pre-built and good quality. So no issue there. If you are sticking to the shelf location, select the reduced BSC version of the crossover. Note the Zaph MT was also designed as for center channel use, so unless you want the bigger box, just add one more speaker to your order.

A smaller sealed design is your best starting place - Both for flexibility and musicality. They should also be easier to match to your subwoofer. If you find they are not to your taste, you can readily apply your woodworking skills and build bigger ported boxes for them. You can use the same crossovers. Note am leaving it to you to check on possible fit options with your shelf unit...

As a reminder, you will get better sound with the speakers closer to the front of the shelf and tweeters close to ear (listening) height.

Ww

Thank you very much Ww,. I really appreciate the help. Beer ( or wine) is on me.

 

[MrBoat]

In this situation, for a set of 'stashable ' speakers, I would go with something small, yet powerful in a constant directivity design using a waveguide to help with some of the challenges presented by the OP.

Don't let the size of these speakers fool you. With a sensitivity of 94dB - 2.83V/1m and rated to 300 watts? These things should at least be more than powerful enough for even a pretty large room and with just a few watts of power, leaving all kinds of headroom to get ridiculous with if you so choose at times. With a sub, this should be a great combination.

These don't use "high end" components but, lets face it, some of the pedigreed, mass produced drivers are way overpriced. These speakers would be worth, according to market trends with all things audio, twice what you pay for the parts.

I've built two of Jeff Bagby's designs. They do not disappoint and he describes them as they are.
The Fusion-12 Tempests I built from that site are ridiculously powerful and I cannot raise them to distortion levels (without damage to my hearing) in my home and they sound fantastic.

 

[Swerd]

Steve1580

I agree that a sealed cabinet might be better for your planned location. I also maintain that MTM speakers with two mid woofers instead of one will benefit you.

The problem that I, and Winkleswizard also seems to have, is that we had known good designs in the past, but the mid woofers for them are now out of production. By the way, greetings to Ww and welcome to Audioholics.

Another good source for DIY kits is GR Research. I suggest the A/V-3S, a MTM speaker in a sealed cabinet. The cabinet plans show a long dimension of 17.5". It is meant to be a center channel speaker for the floor standing A/V-3 towers, and is shown sitting on the long dimension. Ask GR Research about using this speaker standing vertically. I believe that can be done. The price shown is $159 for a single kit. (Don't bother with the more expensive capacitors (Sonicap) or the Electra tube connectors.)

I know the sound of the GR Research M-130 mid woofer and like it. It is very smooth and should do well for you. Here is the frequency response of that mid woofer alone (no tweeter & no cabinet):

 

[Pogre]

I do understand "we are having reservations about this project", but please understand what I am trying to do, is to get some advice on how to improve the sound quality that I currently have.

And that advice is overwhelmingly don't put speakers in a bookshelf. That is the single best thing you can do to improve sound quality. No, you're not the first person to put a speaker in a bookshelf. There are lots of folks willing to compromise sound quality to do so.

 

[shadyJ]

If I were to build a speaker that had to be put in a bookshelf, I would go for something with as narrow dispersion as possible, so it is less affected by the surrounding surfaces. I would probably be looking at the 8" or better yet 10" coaxial drivers from Radian. I would stay away from dome tweeters on a flat baffle. I would also look at a sealed speaker design as well.

 

[MrBoat]

If I were to build a speaker that had to be put in a bookshelf, I would go for something with as narrow dispersion as possible, so it is less affected by the surrounding surfaces. I would probably be looking at the 8" or better yet 10" coaxial drivers from Radian. I would stay away from dome tweeters on a flat baffle. I would also look at a sealed speaker design as well.

The OP did say he could bring them out and set on stands for critical listening. That's really the best solution to his issues so something not too heavy was where I was coming from. Also thinking that if they were small enough, that they could be forgotten to be put away sometimes and the "W" in this equation would just get used to them and absorb it over time and he could maybe stash them when company was coming over, or something.

Seriously, forget shelf performance and make this project worth doing.

 

[Pogre]

The OP did say he could bring them out and set on stands for critical listening. That's really the best solution to his issues so something not too heavy was where I was coming from. Also thinking that if they were small enough, that they could be forgotten to be put away sometimes and the "W" in this equation would just get used to them and absorb it over time and he could maybe stash them when company was coming over, or something.

Seriously, forget shelf performance and make this project worth doing.

Oh you sneaky, sneaky man. I like the way you think!

 

[Steve1580]

Zaph ZA5.2 update: Went to the local supply house and picked out some imported 3/4" mahogany ply that was a very respectable $67 a sheet. Great pattern and color, should come together well with a sapele hardwood trim and lacquer finish. Will start cutting tomorrow and post some pictures soon for those interested. Should be a very fun first speaker project.

Thank you again for all the help!

Steve