Upgrade: AMP or Speakers?

[jeanseb]

Thanks Boerd,

This is what I believe more and more. I think I finally made my choice about my next speakers: The Klipsch WF-35 5.0 system. Here's why:

1- I want extremly bright and clear sound.
2- I don't really care about bass because I have 2 decent subs and a Velodyne SMS-1 on Santa's sleigh.
3- It fits right in my budget.
4- They are beautiful, in espresso at least. So they can be use as furtniture at the same time.
5- They are very sensitive (97dB) so I can get more out of these speakers without the need of a power amp, for the moment.

Is that enough good reasons to go in that direction? It's a lot of money, so your opinion will be very welcome to help me do the right choice.

Thanks!

 

[Soundman]

Best bang for the buck is
1 - upgrading the speakers
2 - room treatment
3 - good CDs/wine/beer
4 - amplifier
...
10 - DAC
Buy the best speakers you can and keep the Yamaha AVR.
If you have any money left - invest in CDs and beer/wine.
Some time ago I had a Marantz integrated amplifier I bought for 399$. It used to drive some expensive Vienna Acoustics speakers (4k$). Later I upgraded to Primare I21 amplifier 1399$ and I was disappointed. The Marantz sounded so much better...

I don't know that I completely agree. If you haven't first treated your room, why spend more on new speakers? You may not even benefit from the upgrade if you haven't first corrected problems that may be present in the room. Besides, if you are going to step it up and by better speakers, why would you not first treat the room so those speakers can sound their best!?

 

[jeanseb]

I don't know that I completely agree. If you haven't first treated your room, why spend more on new speakers? You may not even benefit from the upgrade if you haven't first corrected problems that may be present in the room. Besides, if you are going to step it up and by better speakers, why would you not first treat the room so those speakers can sound their best!?

My room is treated as much as it can be, with all the constraint that exist (openings, aesthetic, furniture, interior design, etc.) I invested enough on sound treatment.

It's time for speakers...

 

[zumbo]

It is some BS. There is not a "sonic difference" between amps and AVRs for the most part. If you have enough power and the amp/AVR will handle the presented load, it should all sound the same.

I have 10 bucks saying that this dealer doesn't carry Yamaha so you bet...the Marantz, that he does carry is going to work much better...

That being said, the bigger paradigms do like alot of power but adding a amp to the Pioneer is the way to go about it.

I have driven my 100's with an AVR, an Emo amp, a pro amp and a Rotel. The 3 amps all sounded the same, the AVR didn't have enough balls to push the 100's very hard. Keep in mind, my room is huge (~8,000 cubic ft).

Try to drive them with just the AVR first and see how it works, add an external amp if you need more power after that.

This is the perfect answer to the thread.

 

[zumbo]

As far as I remember, it's woofers that make that clicking noise as they are being subjected to too much power and being overdriven. Blown tweeters are generally silent.

Yep. Blown tweeters are silent.

 

[zumbo]

I am not a Klipsch fan. You may be impressed with them at the store. You may love them at home. But, I bet you will grow out of liking that sound. Be certain you like them.

 

[zumbo]

As long as your Yamaha receiver handles all of your connection/feature needs, there is no need to upgrade.

As others have mentioned, adding separate amplification to the Yamaha receiver would be the way to go if you feel you are lacking power. Adding a separate amp to the Yamaha receiver will not change the sound at low volumes what-so-ever. Your system will sound like it did before. Period.

 

[Boerd]

Thanks Boerd,

This is what I believe more and more. I think I finally made my choice about my next speakers: The Klipsch WF-35 5.0 system. Here's why:

1- I want extremly bright and clear sound.
2- I don't really care about bass because I have 2 decent subs and a Velodyne SMS-1 on Santa's sleigh.
3- It fits right in my budget.
4- They are beautiful, in espresso at least. So they can be use as furtniture at the same time.
5- They are very sensitive (97dB) so I can get more out of these speakers without the need of a power amp, for the moment.

Is that enough good reasons to go in that direction? It's a lot of money, so your opinion will be very welcome to help me do the right choice.

Thanks!

Never owned a Klipsch but before I spent my money on some speaker I'd audition again and again and wait a few MONTHS - make sure you don't "grow out of that speaker" too soon. Take a look at Emotiva, NHT, go to Best Buy and look at Vienna Acoustics and low-end Martin Logan... Sooo many options, ENJOY
BTW - forget sensitivity - that can't be a criteria
If your speaker is 90 Db with 128Watts (128 = 2at the power of 7) you can drive it to 90 + 3*7db = 111 Db - divorce guaranteed

 

[zumbo]

jeanseb,

Take a look at Boerd's old system compared to his current system in his sig. It is the perfect example of what I try to say to people over-and-over. You don't have to have tower speakers loaded with drivers. There are many bookshelf speakers that will lay towers to rest.

From what I see, the Klipsch are $750 each from J&R. Last time I shopped, you could get B&W 805s for $1500 a pair. If I had $1500 to drop on a pair of speakers, there would be no question.

I know there is a cost difference between your location and mine, but the retail value of each model should still be equal.

Just for fun, go back to your B&W dealer and listen to the 805s. Take your time. Really pay attention to what is going on in the music. This is how a well designed speaker should sound. You should notice a night and day difference from Klipsch.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1153

 

[zumbo]

Just skimmed the review of Boerd's NHT's. Noticed they employ SEAS drivers. Impressive.

I do love my NHT SW-12.

 

[Boerd]

jeanseb,

Take a look at Boerd's old system compared to his current system in his sig. It is the perfect example of what I try to say to people over-and-over. You don't have to have tower speakers loaded with drivers. There are many bookshelf speakers that will lay towers to rest.

From what I see, the Klipsch are $750 each from J&R. Last time I shopped, you could get B&W 805s for $1500 a pair. If I had $1500 to drop on a pair of speakers, there would be no question.

Just for fun, go back to your B&W dealer and listen to the 805s. Take your time. Really pay attention to what is going on in the music. This is how a well designed speaker should sound. You should notice a night and day difference from Klipsch.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1153

Agreed.
Plus, do the math - for the towers 750$ for 4 drivers
for bookshelf - 750$ (let's say) for 2 drivers so they could/should/may be of better quality.
As I said - highly recommend NHT or B&W or Vienna Acoustics
And the B&W 805s for 1500$ beat the Klipsch in my books by a mile especially since you got a sub.

 

[zumbo]

And the B&W 805s for 1500$ beat the Klipsch in my books by a mile especially since you got a sub.

He got 2.

 

[Boerd]

He got 2.

I looked on the net for the B&W 805s - it seems to me they are 1500$ each not for the pair...

 

[zumbo]

I looked on the net for the B&W 805s - it seems to me they are 1500$ each not for the pair...

It's been a while since I priced them. Mind is getting old.

Now I remember why I went with MB Quart.

 

[Wannabubble]

If you liked those Klipsch, try to check out some of their Reference series. I've heard that their older models (like the RF82s that I have) blow their newer ones out of the water.

The RF82s are about 1000 a pair and the RF62s are about 750 I think.

 

[jeanseb]

Thanks Zumbo and Boerd. As for B&W, I'm sure they are amazing. The problem is that I'm not willing to spend 7k$ on a pair of speakers (803).

I've always been a fan of Mirage Omnipolar sound for movies, but when it came for music, not that much of a fan. For me Klipsch is the perfect in between. It is crystal clear and the sound stage is just wide enough for music and movies.

I guess I'll still go around and listen to as much stuff as I can!

Thanks!

 

[zumbo]

As mentioned, in many cases you can get more for your money with bookshelf speakers. But, if you prefer towers, I understand.

I doubt you have a German Maestro dealer in your area. However, you could try.
http://www.german-maestro.de/US/ms_f_one.htm

 

[zumbo]

Another speaker to consider is B&W CM7. Priced @ $1800prUS, they should be right around your budget.

Audioholics review. (EDIT-Not a review)
http://www.audioholics.com/news/press-releases/b-w-introduces-cm7-floorstanding-speaker

CM7
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1067

 

[jeanseb]

In 2010, the CM7 are more expensive 2k$+ for a pair. In that range, I think you can have better speakers for the money. The Dali Lektor 8 for instance.

I'll have to listen to the Klipsch again and again. In the store, I've compare them with the Paradigm Studio 60 (GREAT too). For my taste, I prefer the Klipsch WF-35 system over the studio's for few reasons. Altough the Paradigm got better and more accurate bass response (which, in my case, I don't really care for), The Klipsch got better highs (IMO) and a widder sound stage. The surrounds speakers are one of the best I've ever heard in my life.

The other day I also brang my center channel (Athena AS-C1) to the store to do an A/B/C comparaison with the Klipsch and the Paradigm. The paradigm have a very good "reference sound". Clear, flat, accurate. The Klipsch is very clear and I tought it was the one with the most "natural" dialogue reproduction. It felt like the actors were actually speaking in front of us, in the same room. As for mine, it was the worst of all 3. I felt like the actors were speaking with their hands in front of their mouth...

The Dali are great too, but the last time I've heard them they were pushed by an 18k$ McIntosh stereo system...

 

[zumbo]

The surrounds speakers are one of the best I've ever heard in my life.

1) Surrounds should be an after thought.
2) The mains the most important audition. (Assuming the matching center is of equal quality)
3) Surrounds just don't do much.
4) Mains should be auditioned alone. No sub. No surrounds. No center. No processing.